Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s

[dowlingm]

There could be a reason underpinning was delayed - cash flow. In 2011 the financial crisis was still receding.

 

[fanoftoronto]

There could be a reason underpinning was delayed - cash flow. In 2011 the financial crisis was still receding.

Completely valid reason. Maybe funding was not released to allow for the underpinned stations' construction works. But why haven't they come out and confirmed this? Metrolinx should have identified this as a problem when cash flow was not what was required and when things started going wrong, informed the public and the media that it was a mistake due to circumstances and that they're trying to mitigate the situation.

One of the primary issues of the Crosstown was also lack of communication. The public and the media is entitled to information from Metrolinx. It's the public tax dollars finding this after all, so we are legit stakeholders. It shouldn't be random suits behind closed doors having these conversations, it should be the general public who should be informed.

Heck, I have to give receipts and explanations if certain expenses go over a threshold to most of my expenses incurred on a work trip and those are like $5,000 each maximum. Metrolinx has lower levels of scrutiny and they're spending $11 billion. I really don't think there's any explanation that justifies the horrible planning and horrible communication from Metrolinx.

 

[generalcanada]

If everything went smoothly is a very naive way of project management.

Metrolinx started TBM tunnelling in 2011. TBM tunnelling is historically the most straightforward part of the build process. Why was that prioritized over commencement of construction of more critical and risky portions of the line such as the underpinning of the 2 interchange stations with Line 1. You're right, Kennedy should've started at the same time to limit the impact of any unforseen issues.

As @Northern Light mentioned, delays need to be accounted for and baked into the schedule.

When you spend literal tens of billions of dollars, completion dates or milestone dates are critically required.

To be fair, Ontario Line is prioritizing better. Having started station construction already and working on critical infrastructure. They've also negated having any issues on underpinning by not performing underpinning at all in the Downton interchange stations! Lol

I mean, to be clear they one bad thing they did with the line was package everything as a single contract. Early works included. Even utilities which werent even touched until contracts were signed leading to lawsuits.

Metrolinx asks court to block lawsuit over Eglinton Crosstown LRT line

The provincial transit agency says in a court filing that it “requires and insists” that Crosslinx, the consortium building the Eglinton Crosstown, complete the LRT line by the 2021 deadline.

www.thestar.com

Crosslinx’s notice didn’t include a detailed claim, but it alleged that work by utility companies had exceeded time frames guaranteed by Metrolinx and interfered with the construction process.
It also cited “issues regarding permits, licences and approvals” and “delays” and “disruptions” affecting the design approval process.

Im just saying the organization is different, they have learned, people have came and gone. Verster only came in in 2017. Is it his fault that the project was mismanaged from the start?

Why are we giving the ttc a pass on TYSSE when a couple middle-managers were gone? How much turnover has there been with Metrolinx? Why cant we do the same with them?

 

[nfitz]

There could be a reason underpinning was delayed - cash flow. In 2011 the financial crisis was still receding.

If I remember (and it was discussed in the thread at the time), Metrolinx was going to have city/TTC do the work at Eglinton and Eglinton West, and wasn't part of the original contracts.

2011? They didn't issue the RFQ and RFP until 2013. And didn't award the work to Crosslinx until November 2015 - about 18 months after Metrolinx's 2012 schedule. This after the 1-year delay from 2011 to 2012 while Metrolinx considered moving management from TTC to Infrastructure Ontario. Meanwhile TTC estimated that not awarding the main contract until mid-2014 was a 2-year delay beyond the schedule that TTC had. TTC had been planning to use a traditional approach to complete it by 2020, and had already awarded the first tunnelling contract in 2011.

Back in 2012, TTC publicly advised Metrolinx that Metrolinx's schedule was unrealistic, and suggested it couldn't be done until 2022 or 2023, based on a mid-2014 award. Add the extra 18 months delay of awarding in late-2015, and they are pretty much when TTC originally estimated Metrolinx would finish this!

I can't remember if all the work at Eglinton and Eglinton West stations were added before the 2015 award or not. Or just after the 2013 RFP.

I mean, to be clear they one bad thing they did with the line was package everything as a single contract. Early works included

It wasn't a single contract. TTC had set up to do multiple contracts, with two tunnelling contracts, and multiple station contracts. And separate contracts for the tracks and electrical, etc. TTC had already awarded and started construction on the tunnelling west of Yonge when Metrolinx transferred the work to IO in 2012. And Metrolinx ended awarding the other tunnelling contract as well, rather than roll it into the design-build.

The early works would have been done long before Crosslinx started work in 2016.

Metrolinx and IO had no frigging clue what they were doing. Hopefully they've learned the lessons.