Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

Would it be fair to say that the Ontario line is going to be to Toronto what the Elizabeth line is to London?

I ask because, I'm wondering if a western extension of the Ontario line could be similar to the Elizabeth line east of Whitechapel. Have the line fork off into two directions. One to Mimico, and the other up to Eglinton.

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Mimico is supposed to get essentially subway level service soon with extremely frequent diesel trains, with electric multiple units just like a subway in the years follow that. Why would you spend billions of dollars just to duplicate an existing system?
 
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Why are they using catenary instead of a third rail for the Ontario line?

December 2020 Preliminary Design Business Case excerpt.
Others have noted that third rail DC has a limit of 750V, so once they decided to use 1500V, it had to be overhead catenary.

Here are the catenary references from the December 2020 Preliminary Design Business Case.

NOTE: It'll be an overhead 1500 volt DC system, so the electrical transformers and rectifiers will presumably be in substations,
not on-board as noted in the articles posted by W.K. Lis above for ac systems, and the issues with added vehicle weight won't arise.
1500 volts DC is also a step up from the typical 750 volts DC.
The article posted by W.K. Lis also says that 1500 volts DC (vs 750 volts DC) allows wider spacing / fewer substations.

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Mimico is supposed to get essentially subway level service soon with extremely frequent diesel trains, with electric multiple units just like a subway in the years follow that.
None of this is happening "soon". GO trains will not be transitioning to EMU's in our lifetime. Metrolinx owns nearly 1000 bilevel coaches and is in the process of repainting and refurbishing nearly all of them.

Why would you spend billions of dollars just to duplicate an existing system?
The purpose of the extension is so riders can get off at Mimico or Exhibition and go to Humber Bay, High Park, Roncesvalles, Parkdale, etc.
The Ontario line can act as infill stations for the Lakeshore West line.

Same with an extension up to Mt. Dennis or somewhere on the western portion of the Eglinton line. Put an Ontario line station on St. Clair instead of putting another GO train station on the Kitchener line.

Rough idea of where I would put the stations.
* Green dots represent OL stations with connections to GO train stations.

- Mt Dennis
- Mimico
- Exhibition

Future Stockyard/ Scarlet GO station with possible Milton line improvements?

** Ignore the light blue colour I used to draw out the extension. I'm not suggesting the entire extension be a joint OL-GO corridor. Most of this would be tunneled. Particularly the extension up to Mt. Dennis.

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December 2020 Preliminary Design Business Case excerpt.
Others have noted that third rail DC has a limit of 750V, so once they decided to use 1500V, it had to be overhead catenary.
Third rail is pretty dead on basically any new metro system. It has speed limitations, doesn't deal well in the weather for above ground systems, is more maintenance heavy and is inherently more dangerous.

The only time you really see third rail systems still is when its an expansion of an older system. For the majority of new metro systems, overhead is chosen.
 
Third rail is pretty dead on basically any new metro system.
Absolutely not the case.

It has speed limitations,
Not at the speeds that any metro will operate at.

doesn't deal well in the weather for above ground systems,
Incorrect. It's no better or worse than overhead. Third rail deals far better with icing than overhead, but is worse in blowing snow.

is more maintenance heavy
No it isn't.

and is inherently more dangerous.
I'll give you this one. But the reality is that any metro system should be entirely fenced off from the public anyways - the service is almost always so intensive that no one should be able to get to track level.

The only time you really see third rail systems still is when its an expansion of an older system. For the majority of new metro systems, overhead is chosen.
No, it isn't.

Quite a few of the most recent metro projects - certainly of the more well-known ones around these parts - have been of the "light metro" marketing wank, but several of them have also been of the traditional metro style using 3rd rail shoes, too.

You've also conveniently forgotten about some of the drawbacks of overhead, such as the absolute requirement for larger tunnels.

Dan
 
Has Toronto used these enclosed acoustic excavation sheds before? Eglinton perhaps?

Some recent Aussie projects like the Melb. Metro tunnel have . . .

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Not sure about the past, but after digging around the community meeting presentation slides, I've learned they will be building another one on the Osgoode North entrance site, as well as Queen Station site from Yonge to James St, which will suck for drone coverage 😔
 
Has Toronto used these enclosed acoustic excavation sheds before? Eglinton perhaps?

Some recent Aussie projects like the Melb. Metro tunnel have . . .

View attachment 621650
I think they've used them on other projects in the City, but those two locations are the first time that the sheds are being used on a transit project in Toronto.

Dan
 
None of this is happening "soon". GO trains will not be transitioning to EMU's in our lifetime. Metrolinx owns nearly 1000 bilevel coaches and is in the process of repainting and refurbishing nearly all of them.


The purpose of the extension is so riders can get off at Mimico or Exhibition and go to Humber Bay, High Park, Roncesvalles, Parkdale, etc.
The Ontario line can act as infill stations for the Lakeshore West line.

Same with an extension up to Mt. Dennis or somewhere on the western portion of the Eglinton line. Put an Ontario line station on St. Clair instead of putting another GO train station on the Kitchener line.

Rough idea of where I would put the stations.
* Green dots represent OL stations with connections to GO train stations.

- Mt Dennis
- Mimico
- Exhibition

Future Stockyard/ Scarlet GO station with possible Milton line improvements?

** Ignore the light blue colour I used to draw out the extension. I'm not suggesting the entire extension be a joint OL-GO corridor. Most of this would be tunneled. Particularly the extension up to Mt. Dennis.

View attachment 621356

I like both the concept and the routing of the western branch.

Unfortunately, I don't believe the northern branch (to Mt Dennis) is viable on this route. Not just general enviro concerns going under High Park, but a very specific one - it has a high-pressure aquifer, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laurentian_River_System .
 
Originally, when it was DRL and not OL, I thought Dufferin to be the best route for the western extension. High existing demand, good connectivity etc.

With the OL route set, and the western terminus at the Exhibition, I am much less into the Dufferin route. First of all, getting from East-West at grade to North-South underground poses a challenge. Secondly, for the riders coming from the north, it would be quite a detour to reach as far south as the Exhibition before backtracking north to Queen. And finally, Metrolinx wants to use the Exhibition OL/GO interchange for relieving the Union Stn; that can work only if the OL still has room for more passengers when it reaches the Exhibition.

I believe that starting at the Exhibition terminus, the best route in the west is along the LSW corridor. It is much cheaper to build that way. It can relieve the LSW GO trains from serving the local demand, and allow them to run faster. Last but not least, the volume of demand for OL West will not be too high, and the Exhibition interchange can still serve the Union relief function.

Regarding Dufferin - it should get its own, separate route into downtown in that scenario. For example, north to south under Dufferin from Eglinton to College, then turning east and entering downtown under Dundas.
 
When it comes to a western extension of the OL I have been thinking of perhaps something a bit more unorthodox. Assuming we don't just follow the DRL plan and go north up Roncessvalles to Dundas West here's 3 possible western extensions.

OPTION 1: Extension to Sherway Gardens via Queensway
For this extension the route follows the Lakeshore West line to Queensway and then runs along Queensway to Sherway Gardens. Stations would be at: Roncessvalles, Windemere, Royal York, Kipling, Sherway Gardens. Perhaps Line 2 also receives a 2 stop extension west to meet the OL at Sherway creating a new transit hub. Of course this also leaves open the possibility of a further western extension into Mississauga although due to the difference in technology only 1 line could be extended further west while the other terminates at Sherway. The main issues I can see with this extension are:

1) to much service for Queensway which may be better served by a streetcar
2) to close to Line 2. It can be argued that this extension may be to close to Line 2 and could cannabilize some of its ridership. This may be a good thing though since it could relieve growing pressure on the western half of Line 2 with riders commuting from the west end and Mississauga chosing to use the OL to get downtown instead of Line 2.

OPTION 2: Extension north to Pearson via Kipling Hydro Corridor:
For this extension instead of heading to Sherway Gardens, the OL turns north at Kipling and heads north via the Obico sub and Kipling Hyrdro corridor to Pearson Airport replicating part of the unbuilt Etobicoke RT. Stations on this extension would be: Kipling (Line 2), Burnhamthorpe, Eglinton (Line 5), Carlingview, Pearson Intl Airport. This extension would help alievate the lack of the major north-south line in the cities west end. The main issues with this extension are:

1) Construction Complexitity. The use of a hyrdro corridor pretty much precludes the use of an elevated structure thus the line would need to be built either under the corridor or in a trench. This is further compunded by the mess around Eglinton since there is both a large substation, gas lines, and Line 5 in the area meaning the line would have to be deep bored through here.
2) Duplication of UP Service. It can be argued that this extension would duplicata the primary role of the UP. While the UP would still be a faster ride into downtown, I have no doubt some would use the OL instead if only for its lower TTC fare.
3) Duplication of Line 5 Service. It can be argued that this extension would make the Line 5 extension to Pearson usless since you could just transfer to the OL at Martin Grove/Eglinton. Perhaps this make a case for Line 5 to be extended west into Mississauga via the BRT corridor instead of to Pearson.

OPTION 3: Turn the OL into a Ring Line via the Humber-Pearson & Finch Hydro Corridors.
For this extenson instead of heading to Pearson the route continues north via the Humber-Pearson Hydro Corridor and then east via to Finch Hydro Corridor to Don Mills Avenue, were it then turns south and reconnects to itself forming a ring line. This would fully replicate the unbuilt Etobicoke RT and give the cities west end its missing north-south line. Stations of this extension would be: Martin Grove/Dixon, Kipling, Islington, Finch/Weston (Line 6), Jane, Finch West (Line 1, 6), Dufferin, Bathurst, Finch (Line 1), Bayview, Leslie, Don Mills/Finch, Don Mills (Line 4). The main issues with the extension could be:

1) Construction Complexities. Just like with Option 2 all of the same issues with construction in the hydro corridors exist here.
2) Duplication of Line 6 Service. It can be argued that this extension would duplicate some of the service provided by Line 6. As well you can make the argument that you can get the same or similar results by extending Line 6 east to Yonge Street and beyond.

Of these 3 options I think Option 1 is the safest bet since it has the fewest complexities and may be more in line with the Provinces goals for a wider regional transit network (i.e. extension to Mississauga).

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