Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

[LMVDR]

The plan is brilliant. And the funding is simple. Make the 3 million people of Toronto pay for it.

$10 billion is $3,333 for every citizen. That’s under $30 per month for 10 years. Call it a transit levy. Start it immediately and in 120 months we’ll have this mission critical transit line.

My plan is responsible and fair. Everyone has an extra $30 in their pocket at the end of the month. If not you’re not budgeting properly. And let businesses and wealthy donor pay for station naming rights to further reduce costs. Encourage more ads on the line. Whatever it takes get in done now and don’t put Ontario further into debt to do it.

A politician with balls would implement my plan. It’s courageous.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Agreed. Totally possible btw, the REM is only 2 car sets so they can run 1 car sets during late hours/weekends

Not needed on a line predicted to be as busy as this one.

Heres the same rolling stock for REM, but a longer 6 car 3rd rail variant. I suspect the Ontario Line would be more like this

From link.

If the "Ontario" link will be using a different train set from Line 2, it would need a separate storage yard with a railway connection (for deliveries). So where? On top of the North Toronto Wastewater Treatment plant near Millwood Road? Or do a "Robert Moses" and tear down some old residential buildings? Or do a "Doug Ford" and fill in parkland and put in a "parking lot" for trains?

 

[jcam]

Do they move the Science Centre to Ontario Place, and redevelop a yard under the Science Centre lands, then develop above it as res/commercial to mirror the Celestica redevelopment?
Or they do a yard alongside the rail corridor in Thorncliff Park...that alignment would allow a Thorncliff Park station to be future-proofed for GO service on the CP line.

 

[LNahid2000]

Yes, the government could change on a dime in 2022 before any of this even comes to fruition. Expedience is key here. We've never had a government this invested in building subways since the Bill Davis years from my observation.

lol really? To me it seems like they're just making up new plans by drawing them on a napkin. We don't even know where the stops are yet! And on top of that, they're only funding 1/3 of the plan (I don't believe the BS that they'll pay for all of it). My prediction is that none of this will get built.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

Yes, the government could change on a dime in 2022 before any of this even comes to fruition. Expedience is key here. We've never had a government this invested in building subways since the Bill Davis years from my observation.

Surely no politician is dumb enough to throw away years of planning studies etc etc etc, only to come along with their own project right? I mean that would be like dumping dirt back into the hole you just dug!

 

[cplchanb]

would the science center terminal be above or below ground? given that works are well underway on the ect station it would be a massive redesign and a stop work situation if the station needs to accommodate an interchange to the OL.

 

[steveintoronto]

Which are run by capable, well funded agencies I believe?

Yeahhh....it's a more than a fair point. One of those is Warsaw, I'll see what I can find on the funding and maintenance. My guess is that it's pretty good, not least due to recent EU funding.

My prediction is that none of this will get built.

I lean that way too, with the proviso that something will get built, just not this. Will this proposition *cue* something real getting built? I'm much more optimistic on the latter, and by majority Private Initiative. (Like REM)

^ As to space for a yard as being discussed in other posts above, there's various options. That won't be a problem in the big scheme of things.

 

[cplchanb]

Surely no politician is dumb enough to throw away years of planning studies etc etc etc, only to come along with their own project right? I mean that would be like dumping dirt back into the hole you just dug!

in all honesty though....how advanced is the design anyways? Theyre years until shovels hit the ground so it would seem that they arent that advanced. If theyre going for tender then yea its a dick move but
they dont even have permits filed in yet so changes are still acceptable.

 

[narduch]

My prediction is that none of this will get built.

I don't know. I think they have to build something. And they just made the DRL/Ontario line their #1 priority.

I think there is a 75% chance they also move forward with the Yonge-North extension. Probably a little bit staggered so that Construction starts after OL construction starts.

But I think all the other proposed lines are just that, proposals. This includes the SSE. I think it was not a positive announcement for SSE boosters.

 

[steveintoronto]

would the science center terminal be above or below ground? given that works are well underway on the ect station it would be a massive redesign and a stop work situation if the station needs to accommodate an interchange to the OL.

Better to flip that over (albeit IIRC, it's already taken into consideration): If the Science Centre Station hasn't taken that into consideration THAT would be a major design flaw.

The below-grade design at Don Mills also protects for a possible future connection with a Relief Line, currently being studied by Metrolinx, the City of Toronto and the TTC.

http://thecrosstown.ca/node/1651

 

[Tuscani01]

Better to flip that over (albeit IIRC, it's already taken into consideration): If the Science Centre Station hasn't taken that into consideration THAT would be a major design flaw.

would the science center terminal be above or below ground? given that works are well underway on the ect station it would be a massive redesign and a stop work situation if the station needs to accommodate an interchange to the OL.

"The below-grade design at Don Mills also protects for a possible future connection with a Relief Line, currently being studied by Metrolinx, the City of Toronto and the TTC."

http://thecrosstown.ca/node/1651

In terms of a yard for trains, are the Science Centre North parking lots large enough for this? The Province could always build it below grade and sell air rights to developers to help cover the cost.

 

[bobbob911]

Did I miss a good reason why the light stock used for the Crosstown is not being considered for this line? At least there will be connectivity in that case to railyards.

 

[steveintoronto]

"The below-grade design at Don Mills also protects for a possible future connection with a Relief Line, currently being studied by Metrolinx, the City of Toronto and the TTC."

http://thecrosstown.ca/node/1651

lol...we both posted that at the same time. But further to that, I certainly hope they include a head-shunt as a stub for both storage and to continue the line further north to the RH alignment to have a passenger pick-up station there and further extension into York Region that can curve away north of Steeles, but south of where CN begins. One of the advantages of a 'metro' is the easier ability to 'fly' the line over obstructions rather than under. Ford claims (gist) "York Region will be contributing to the cost"....then York Region should be considered more for extending this.

 

[steveintoronto]

Did I miss a good reason why the light stock used for the Crosstown is not being considered for this line? At least there will be connectivity in that case to railyards.

It's something that should have been considered, and something some of us raised over the years in this string. To cut a long story short, LRT specs for RoW can and are shared with metros in other nations. Even the probable power supply (1500 VDC) catenary height (tunnel bore permitting) and signalling/control can and are shared in systems already working. (Holland host a couple of examples of these, as do Belgium and others)

There would be a huge advantage in terms of sharing rolling stock. One of the factors not included in that is 'driverless control', and therein lies a huge anti-union benefit for the Cons. London dealt with this, even with the most recent Labour administration (historically the case, save for the Boris era), as per Docklands Light Railway...something that will come up in press stories on this.

So the short answer is 'YES'...with provisos, many of them political, not engineering. I think it *absolutely* should be discussed, but at the end of the day, I don't see the Ford proposal happening. I see a Private Initiative one being sparked by this, very similar to REM, and he who charges the piper to play, calls the tune they ride on. I suspect a large supplier/manufacturer will be part of a consortium to build this, and sole source their own stock.

As per "driverless operation" and it 'eliminating labour issues and costs':
(and this too will hit the Toronto media)

Things were going so well for the Docklands Light Railway – popular, successful and reliable – until yesterday. Designed to be strike-proof, the DLR experienced its first closure by strike action in its 28-year history. This wasn’t supposed to happen.

The DLR is one of London’s most successful and most popular forms of transport. With over 110 million passenger journeys in 2014/15, and the percentage of journey times and departures delivered on time running consistently in the very high 90s, the DLR is usually extremely good at its job. That the DLR boasted a customer satisfaction rating of 89 per cent last month should be no surprise.

However, following a change of management in December, yesterday and today the DLR has been closed by a 48-hour strike. The strike has been called by the Rail, Maritime and Transport union, who claim that the transfer of the DLR franchise from outsourcing company Serco to the new joint venture KeolisAmey Docklands has led to attempts to bring in poor working practices, and the bullying of staff. The RMT union claim a ballot of members registered 92 per cent in favour of strike action.


The DLR was designed and built to avoid such a turn of events. [...]

The strike-proof Docklands Light Railway has gone on strike

 

[robmausser]

That looks like a modern-day Scarborough Rapid Transit line, or the Zoomobile. I thought weather delays were a big issue for raised transit like this, which is a benefit of true underground subways.

Im only commenting on the trains and track tech here, not the fact that its elevated.

Weather delays are not an issue if its done properly. LIM transit like the scarborough RT has weather issues but thats specific to that technology.