Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

minilude said:
if money is not an issue, the support of DRL going to Sheppard even Markham is no brainer as I said..we are discussing if the money is limited..which scenario to choose to give the best relief to Yonge
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Exactly. I fully support a DRL to Markham and Woodbridge in the west end - given an infinite amount of funds...

However, the entire conversation has been cast as Yonge Relief - absolutely no business case leveraging other (very important) KPIs such as network connectivity, surface congestion in west downtown, a collapsing surface network downtown, etc... It seems the only KPI is Yonge.. In that case forget a western DRL - but I find that approach incredibly myopic.
 
TheTigerMaster said:
Because the Yonge Line capacity issue affects way more people than streetcar capacity issues, and is of significantly greater regional importance (YNSE is being held up because of this)

Keep in mind too that City Planning is addressing the streetcar network capacity issues as well, through the purchase of our fleet of LFLRVs and the King Street transit mall. The transit mall will add significantly more capacity and dramatically improve travel times on the downtown streetcar network, until we can complete the RLU. This can be implemented next year, which will help you out a lot.
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Why the bloody crap do we care about YNSE? That's Richmond Hill's problem, not Toronto's.

That is why we are also spending billions on upgrading GO. For the life of me, I don't understand why you'd take a subway from RH to Union. It's like taking the streetcar from Islington to Broadview when going to the subway would be far faster.

And honestly TigerMaster, you've known me well enough on these boards. I'll believe streetcar improvements when I see them, but those clunkers are notoriously unreliable.
 
TheTigerMaster said:
Keep in mind too that City Planning is addressing the streetcar network capacity issues as well, through the purchase of our fleet of LFLRVs and the King Street transit mall. The transit mall will add significantly more capacity and dramatically improve travel times on the downtown streetcar network, until we can complete the RLU. This can be implemented next year, which will help you out a lot.
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That's in some way similar to claiming that ATC is going to save your skin for Line 1 though - we know the new streetcars won't do anything to solve the fundamental problem of service reliability. It's time for the city to admit that for certain surface transit routes is at the point of saturation and move on from there.

AoD
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
That's in some way similar to claiming that ATC is going to save your skin for Line 1 though - we know the new streetcars won't do anything to solve the fundamental problem of service reliability.

AoD
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No, the new streetcars alone won't adequately address service reliability, it'll only address capacity. King Street transit mall is what will address speed and reliability.
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
That's in some way similar to claiming that ATC is going to save your skin for Line 1 though - we know the new streetcars won't do anything to solve the fundamental problem of service reliability. It's time for the city to admit that for certain routes surface transit is at the point of saturation.

AoD
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Ya.. new streetcars and a transit mall is enough for the west. But the east needs nothing but DRL, ST, GO RER, any other transit investment you could probably think of as well. ATC is insulting!
 
TheTigerMaster said:
Nobody but you has said that.
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And I quote:

"Keep in mind too that City Planning is addressing the streetcar network capacity issues as well, through the purchase of our fleet of LFLRVs and the King Street transit mall. "

I assume you work for the TTC then? That explains a multitude of things, but thanks for letting me know!
 
TheTigerMaster said:
No, the new streetcars alone won't adequately address service reliability, it'll only address capacity. King Street transit mall is what will address speed and reliability.
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I think that might be wishful thinking - the transit mall is a stop gap, not the penultimate solution. I think it would be wise to actually do an EA of the full line - and then the decision to extend can be made with minimal delay.

AoD
 
Interesting how bandaid solutions for Yonge capacity issues are unacceptable (and nothing but a $10 billion DRL will do), while the west can continue with bandaid solutions until some funds are freed up sometime in 2050.
 
Filip said:
And I quote:

"Keep in mind too that City Planning is addressing the streetcar network capacity issues as well, through the purchase of our fleet of LFLRVs and the King Street transit mall. "

I assume you work for the TTC then? That explains a multitude of things, but thanks for letting me know!
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When did I ever say the transit mall was a permeant solution for travel flow issues in the west? If you actually read my post, you'd see that I said:

The transit mall will add significantly more capacity and dramatically improve travel times on the downtown streetcar network, until we can complete the RLU.

Indicating that indeed the King Street transit mall was a stopgap solution.
 
Filip said:
Interesting how bandaid solutions for Yonge capacity issues are unacceptable (and nothing but a $10 billion DRL will do), while the west can continue with bandaid solutions until some funds are freed up sometime in 2050.
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None of the Yonge relief options on the table cost $10 Billion, and all of the solutions thus far (RLS, ATO, TRs) are bandaid solutions that leave the Yonge Line at or above capacity.
 
I don't live in the west part but comparing to the east there is UPX (soon to be electrified), barrie line (soon to be electrified and new stations), spadina subway. The east has none - DRL is up in the air, Richmond Hill Go will not be electrified, only the stouffville line has a comparable position as the west?
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
I think that might be wishful thinking - the transit mall is a stop gap, not the penultimate solution. I think it would be wise to actually do an EA of the full line - and then the decision to extend can be made with minimal delay.

AoD
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You're preaching to the choir. I agree with 100% of what you've said. Move forward with the EAs for the entire Relief Line, implement the King transit mall until we get RLL & RLU done.
 
minilude said:
I don't live in the west part but comparing to the east there is UPX (soon to be electrified), barrie line (soon to be electrified and new stations), spadina subway. The east has none - DRL is up in the air, Richmond Hill Go will not be electrified, only the stouffville line has a comparable position as the west?
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I think the "problem" area is Etobicoke Lakeshore/Humber Bay - and it's probably going to worse given the Christie site and gawd knows if the Food Terminal is going to go.

AoD
 
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