Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

usrc had problems? what happened?
exhibition? what about that? there was a redevelopment but put on hold when the Ontario Line was announced for obvious reasons
LRVs? you mean the crosstown lrvs? or the toronto flexities that metrolinx wasnt a part of?
UPX? pretty sure that was completed on time?

Stouville corridor, while delayed saying previously completed by December 2020 and substantail completion in 2022 is a year delayed especially during covid.
The stations, with the corridors themselves have been thorugh so many changes since 2018.
Barrie line, lakeshore, kitchener, All have been changed multiple times since 2018, not suprised theyre so delayed
It took them more than 6 years to not finish a bridge over the Exhibition station.

UPX they charged 30 bucks a ride initially.

The stations are a big one. Stoney Creek doesn't need two years, and the track extension is only getting underway after 8 years of talk.
They need to pay CN 1.5 billion for the rest of Kitchener. Just do it. We need constant service to Waterloo Region.

USRC is delayed, they need to finish the signals before electrification.

Barrie should have been done at the end of this year. Especially the Toronto sections. we need way more service to Simcoe.
 
A lack of information doesn't mean diddly squat? Are you for real right now?

Openness and transparency are hallmarks of a healthy civilization. Secrecy and lies are how Metrolinx operates, which is why basically everyone on the forum but you detests them so.

I don't remember asking for a walkthrough of the Crosstown, I want open insights into how the project is going and what they are doing to correct the many, many inadequacies that have been allowed right under their noses. Remember earlier this year when it transpired that there was no credible plan to finish the project? Stuff like that has no place in a healthy democratic society.

Is Metrolinx paying you to defend their mediocrity so vociferously?
 
A lack of information doesn't mean diddly squat? Are you for real right now?

Openness and transparency are hallmarks of a healthy civilization. Secrecy and lies are how Metrolinx operates, which is why basically everyone on the forum but you detests them so.

I don't remember asking for a walkthrough of the Crosstown, I want open insights into how the project is going and what they are doing to correct the many, many inadequacies that have been allowed right under their noses. Remember earlier this year when it transpired that there was no credible plan to finish the project? Stuff like that has no place in a healthy democratic society.

Is Metrolinx paying you to defend their mediocrity so vociferously?

"everyone" lol
lies? explain
so metrolinx comes out and says "x y and z were mismanaged, we have prevented this from happening by doing this thing"
Is that what you want to hear? would that change your mind about metrolinx just by itself?
What does that change? metrolinx still bungled the project, it was still mismanaged. People will still hate on metrolinx

oh that credible plan thing. You know its just metrolinx disagreeing with the plan that CTS has right? Its not like CTS is flying by the seat of their pants
You ever have a contractor do your patio then disagree when they say theyre all done and want payment? Thats what that was.
Remember theres payments to them based on completion %
 
It took them more than 6 years to not finish a bridge over the Exhibition station.

UPX they charged 30 bucks a ride initially.

The stations are a big one. Stoney Creek doesn't need two years, and the track extension is only getting underway after 8 years of talk.
They need to pay CN 1.5 billion for the rest of Kitchener. Just do it. We need constant service to Waterloo Region.

USRC is delayed, they need to finish the signals before electrification.

Barrie should have been done at the end of this year. Especially the Toronto sections. we need way more service to Simcoe.
again priorities, USRC needs to be finished before expansion is done right? and how long is that? were still 10 years out. Very low priority to get that finished.
not sure how barrie can get improved service since its still single tracked. ONCorr is going to do the 2nd track.
sure we could pay CN for more access to their tracks right now, hell we should build more tracks beside them all the way to KW. Doesnt mean it wont ever be done. Again Priorities
 
again priorities, USRC needs to be finished before expansion is done right? and how long is that? were still 10 years out. Very low priority to get that finished.
not sure how barrie can get improved service since its still single tracked. ONCorr is going to do the 2nd track.
sure we could pay CN for more access to their tracks right now, hell we should build more tracks beside them all the way to KW. Doesnt mean it wont ever be done. Again Priorities
They own all of Barrie! That's pure laziness. If KW (Brampton should be the priority, but I digress) is so important, come to a deal. This is the same company they bought other corridors from.
 
The line is supposed to be opened in 8 years and we've seen precious little in the way of construction works so far. A quasi competent entity managing the project might just get it done, but with Metrolinx? I'm calling it right now, no earlier than 2035.
I was actually quit surprised with how fast they are moving. They only awarded the main south contract in November - and this isn't a final design - the first thing the contractor has to do is finish the design!

The early works are certainly proceeding well; the construction at Exhibition station is very visible, and all the site work at Corktown station. I think it will be tough to estimate the finish date until they award the remaining contracts (for the shared corridor with GO, the north tunnel on Pape, the bridge next to Leaside bridge, the elevated section in East York and on Don Mills, and the Yard. Some are those are in the same contract, but I can't keep track.

For the most part, organizational learning and Metrolinx are two mutually exclusive things.

They reinvent things to the point of having a similar outcome.
Though the PPP issues come out of the quality of the contract. Which is more Infrastructure Ontario than Metrolinx. I agree about Metrolinx, but I have more faith that Infrastructure Ontario will learn from the Eglinton mistakes.
 
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usrc had problems? what happened?
They gave the project to Siemens. Within a calendar year, Siemens was 6 months behind. They ended up getting turfed after about 2 and a half years.

At that point, they offered the contract to the second-lowest bidder, who told them where to go. They had to rebid the whole process.

exhibition? what about that? there was a redevelopment but put on hold when the Ontario Line was announced for obvious reasons
The original work on Exhibition was to extend the Western Lead from Strachan to Dufferin, and put it around Platform 1 at Exhibition. In concert with this, they extended the tunnel underneath where the Western Lead would go, and build a new structure and exit from the tunnel to the Liberty Village neighbourhood. This had always been in the long-term plans for Exhibition Station, and in fact much of the loading calculations that had been done for the station were done with this additional exit in place.

The work was started in 2010, and much of the structure was done by 2012. But the track was never built, and the additional exit was never put into use until late 2021 or early last year.

LRVs? you mean the crosstown lrvs? or the toronto flexities that metrolinx wasnt a part of?
The whole Crosstown LRV fiasco. You know, where Metrolinx sued Bombardier to try and cancel the contract, and then got laughed out of court? And where they bought Alstom LRVs at a far higher price than they were getting for the Bombardier ones?

UPX? pretty sure that was completed on time?
Only barely, and not to the original scope. Once they realized things were going sideways with the construction, they scaled back several aspects of it, such as the 4th track.

Stouville corridor, while delayed saying previously completed by December 2020 and substantail completion in 2022 is a year delayed especially during covid.
The double-tracking work on Stouffville was supposed to be completed in 2019. And it never even included the upgrading at Unionville Station, which was tendered afterwards and has since been completed.

And no, the Stouffville corridor is not done. It is missing a bridge over Highland Creek, and so the double-track only goes from Progress Ave. to Kennedy Station.

I can appreciate COVID being a serious concern and hindrance with a project underground, or when working in an enclosed space. Double-tracking this line is being done completely in the open atmosphere, so any COVID setbacks should have only occurred early on and relatively briefly. Instead, the delays here have been accumulating since almost day 1.

This project has been going on for so long now, that Metrolinx has been able to schedule two different periods of "service shutdowns" in order to get the crews more time to work on it.

The stations, with the corridors themselves have been thorugh so many changes since 2018.
Sure, and I can appreciate that plans change.

But there have also been situations where the work was done and then undone because plans changed half-way through the process.

Dan
 
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lies? explain
Insisting until the last that their public facing timelines are correct, when everyone knows that it's not feasible.

so metrolinx comes out and says "x y and z were mismanaged, we have prevented this from happening by doing this thing"
Is that what you want to hear? would that change your mind about metrolinx just by itself?
What does that change? metrolinx still bungled the project, it was still mismanaged. People will still hate on metrolinx
That is what we should have been hearing all along. Updates every step of the way of what's happened, what's gone wrong, and what will be done to make it better. This is literally how any semi-competent public-facing organization behaves. How are you actually questioning the necessity of this? Are you for real?

It wouldn't make the problem entirely right - the level of mismanagement and stupidity that Metrolinx has shown has no place in any organization in charge of delivering public infrastructure - but it's even worse when they are stupid and secretive. And no, if Metrolinx came out and said that now, I would not be appeased. It's too little, too late now, they should've gotten it right the first time like grown adults with billions of cash are expected to. Metrolinx is in my bad books and will be until such time as they have demonstrated they can do better. If they can do better.

oh that credible plan thing. You know its just metrolinx disagreeing with the plan that CTS has right? Its not like CTS is flying by the seat of their pants
You ever have a contractor do your patio then disagree when they say theyre all done and want payment? Thats what that was.
Remember theres payments to them based on completion %
Great - why in the name of heaven don't they tell the public this? Telling the public that there is "no credible plan" to complete the project is a stupid soundbite that gets the public (rightfully) riled up and reveals to us all that their goons have the media literacy of a two year old.
 
The entire procurement of the P3 process GO expansion has gone through reworks.

The decision to reroute Bowmanville GO…. after a costly expropriation in Oshawa which is now unnecessary….

The plan to build a flyover at Scarborough Jct….. designed and then shelved.

The Don Valley yard…..

The list goes on….

- Paul
 
Great - why in the name of heaven don't they tell the public this? Telling the public that there is "no credible plan" to complete the project is a stupid soundbite that gets the public (rightfully) riled up and reveals to us all that their goons have the media literacy of a two year old.
Please keep in mind that the Premier's Office dictates all of Metrolinx's communications with the public.

Unitl 2019, Metrolinx did a pretty good job of communicating with us, even having public-access Town Hall meetings (still available on their Youtube channel). They're not allowed to do that now.
 
Please keep in mind that the Premier's Office dictates all of Metrolinx's communications with the public.

Unitl 2019, Metrolinx did a pretty good job of communicating with us, even having public-access Town Hall meetings (still available on their Youtube channel). They're not allowed to do that now.
When we talk about Metrolinx’ incompetence the micromanagement directly from the Premiers office (before it was just the Transportation Minister that allowed relative autonomy), we need to be directing the blame where it belongs. It’s truly sad how intent the PC’s are at demonstrating the majority of their decisions are self serving. Metrolinx must be reformed when we throw out the PC’s
 
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