Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

hawc said:
Don't agree at all.

Downtown we've had roads everywhere reduced to just one car lane each way to allow for bicycle or multi-use lanes. Examples like Bayview Extension, Dundas, Canary District, Eastern to name a tiny fraction. Speed bumps everywhere. CafeTO. Cyclists exempt from traffic laws through zero enforcement. Extra low speed limits like 30km/h where it used to be 60km/h.

I definitely would not call any of these PRO automobile at all.

Everything is moving away from making things easier and more convenient for the automobile.

Of course, those with a fanatical hate for cars will continue to spin the narrative that Toronto is all about the automobile, but it clearly is not anymore and is definitely de-prioritizing cars more and and more each day and with each new law and infrastructure upgrade.
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Depends if the ward councillor is pro-automobile or pro-cyclist or pro-transit. The suburban councillors tend to veto those changes within their own wards.
 
hawc said:
Don't agree at all.

Downtown we've had roads everywhere reduced to just one car lane each way to allow for bicycle or multi-use lanes. Examples like Bayview Extension, Dundas, Canary District, Eastern to name a tiny fraction. Speed bumps everywhere. CafeTO. Cyclists exempt from traffic laws through zero enforcement. Extra low speed limits like 30km/h where it used to be 60km/h.
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The tide is turning, but city wide, traffic planning is still deeply auto centric. Streetcar/LRT/BRT signal priority is a major example of this. Most dedicated transit right of ways are still subservient to auto traffic. I feel the need to respond to some of these points, but i feel like it will only derail the thread further.
 
On the subway, Crosstown underground, and future Ontario Line, they have to be following the "rules". That includes "go slow rules" around construction, maintenance, or safety concerns. How many speed over 100 km/h on the expressway, despite lowered "construction" speed limits?
 
hawc said:
Don't agree at all.

Downtown we've had roads everywhere reduced to just one car lane each way to allow for bicycle or multi-use lanes. Examples like Bayview Extension, Dundas, Canary District, Eastern to name a tiny fraction. Speed bumps everywhere. CafeTO. Cyclists exempt from traffic laws through zero enforcement. Extra low speed limits like 30km/h where it used to be 60km/h.
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Why do you need to drive downtown? Those bike lanes are transporting 10 times more people, more efficiently, less wear on the road, less pollution, better health etc.

Why do cyclists need traffic laws? If a bike crashes into another bike, at worse people are breaking their bones. If a bike crashes into a pedestrian, maybe a couple bruises with a broken bone. If a car or god forbid an oversized crotch compensator like an SUV or Pickup Truck crashed into a bike or another person, then people are dying.

Whats wrong with CafeTO? Eating outside is great, what were those parking spaces doing otherwise? Look at home much more revenue those bits of roads are producing for the city compared to how much they provide w. parking

hawc said:
I definitely would not call any of these PRO automobile at all.

Everything is moving away from making things easier and more convenient for the automobile.
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Good because the automobile is the least efficient method of transport within a city.

Takes up the most room to transport the least people unlike trains, trams or busses

Pollutes the air with soot and sound and doesn't provide users with exercise like walking or biking.

We don't have enough space in cities for people and cars and it is great that we're finally deciding that cities should cater to people.
 
MrGoose said:
Why do you need to drive downtown?
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Simply put because cycling doesn't work for everyone all the time.

I love cycling, but it works best when you're by yourself and don't have much to carry.

Have a young family? Probably aren't all going out on bicycles. Especially if they're so young they can't even ride bikes.

Have elderly parents or dependents with health or physical limitations, probably aren't shuttling them around on bikes.

Have to go to business meeting in business clothes? Not fun to arrive all sweaty. Have a date? Likewise.

Have groceries or large items? Not possible to carry on bikes and not everyone wants to shop online and have everything delivered.

Miserable weather out, rain or snowing like it is half the year here in Toronto, no fun to be riding.

So take transit for all those things? Transit is great sometimes, but other times doesn't always feel safe from a health standpoint or these days even a safety standpoint.

There are still lots and lots of reasons to be driving downtown. Lots of times it's actually faster, more comfortable and more convenient. We're not L.A. where you need a car, but we're also not Manhattan or London or Paris where having a car downtown seems insane.

I'm not against any of the pro-cycling or pro-transit initiatives at all. Bring 'em all on. The more people on bikes and transit the better. But I'm absolutely not anti-car either and I don't think you have to pick a side. And I think it's childish when either side demonizes the other.
 
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I don't think cyclists ignore traffic rules more than drivers. Pretty much every time the light changes, at least one driver blows through it, often two or three. People speed and change lanes without signaling. People turn red on rights without stopping. People roll through stop signs faster than any cyclist usually does. People read their phones while driving. People refuse to clear the snow off their roof, mirrors and rear windshield. People drive in the rain with no lights on. It's endless. No wonder drivers kill so many people.
 
I don't see a lot of drivers blowing through red lights and stop signs full speed like cyclists do. I don't see a lot of drivers blasting down the sidewalk like cyclists do. I don't see a lot of drivers going the wrong way down one way streets and blowing stop signs and then hoping up onto the sidewalk. If a cop saw a driver doing the illegal things cyclists do they'd be pulled over and ticketed immediately. But cyclists get a pass. Maybe we just say there are no rules for cyclists. Let's make them like pedestrians, do anything you want on the road at any time and everyone else has to all they can to avoid hitting you. Perhaps that's the answer.
 
hawc said:
I don't see a lot of drivers blowing through red lights and stop signs full speed like cyclists do. I don't see a lot of drivers blasting down the sidewalk like cyclists do. I don't see a lot of drivers going the wrong way down one way streets and blowing stop signs and then hoping up onto the sidewalk. If a cop saw a driver doing the illegal things cyclists do they'd be pulled over and ticketed immediately. But cyclists get a pass. Maybe we just say there are no rules for cyclists. Let's make them like pedestrians, do anything you want on the road at any time and everyone else has to all they can to avoid hitting you. Perhaps that's the answer.
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LOL.

Stand at a busy intersection and observe the light changes. At least one car blows through the red every single time. Then after the car going straight blows through the red, two cars turn left on the red, against the pedestrian green light.
 
44 North said:
Have you actually been on Line 1? I'm serious. It's pretty obvious the narrow disjointed egresses south of Bloor even at revamped stations will not allow the line to carry and maintain anything close to 60k pphpd. Why give a useless comparison?
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Reading about other cities' subways won't hurt. You are in for a big surprise if you choose do so. They manage higher capacity by running longer trains more frequently. Improving ingress and egress on Yonge line won't increase train length or frequency. That's achieved by building longer platforms and better signalling plus more. Please do a quick research on PPHPD of other lines before you reply.
 
hawc said:
I don't see a lot of drivers blowing through red lights and stop signs full speed like cyclists do. I don't see a lot of drivers blasting down the sidewalk like cyclists do. I don't see a lot of drivers going the wrong way down one way streets and blowing stop signs and then hoping up onto the sidewalk. If a cop saw a driver doing the illegal things cyclists do they'd be pulled over and ticketed immediately. But cyclists get a pass. Maybe we just say there are no rules for cyclists. Let's make them like pedestrians, do anything you want on the road at any time and everyone else has to all they can to avoid hitting you. Perhaps that's the answer.
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"Full speed" for a cyclist is 20-25kph, usually. You see cars rolling stops at that speed all day long.

 
innsertnamehere said:
not sure how many people in south Etobicoke are going from Long Brach to High Park for their commute, that's the problem.

The WW LRT is very slow and it's primary destination for most riders is a long distance ride to Union, as there are not many major employers along it. Lots of recreational destinations, but that's not what most people make trips for in their day to day lives. It would be great for someone living in Long Branch who wanted to go to High Park, but that's about it.
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If that's the motivation then wouldn't the upcoming GO upgrades be sufficient? Why extend the OL out there? It's one stop from Park Lawn to Exhibition and you can get on the OL there. That's seems like a great option
 
hawc said:
Simply put because cycling doesn't work for everyone all the time.

I love cycling, but it works best when you're by yourself and don't have much to carry.

Have a young family? Probably aren't all going out on bicycles. Especially if they're so young they can't even ride bikes.
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Cargo bikes can carry kids, kids can sit on the back of normal upright bikes too
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hawc said:
Have elderly parents or dependents with health or physical limitations, probably aren't shuttling them around on bikes.
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Incredibly specific, seniors can ride bikes too. Better than letting them drive cars.
hawc said:
Have groceries or large items? Not possible to carry on bikes and not everyone wants to shop online and have everything delivered.
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hawc said:
Miserable weather out, rain or snowing like it is half the year here in Toronto, no fun to be riding.
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