AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
That's insufficient - the whole point of planning is to avoid failures before building - and it also posit that they couldn't do better in the first place. Figure it out.
AoD
Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx
- Thread starter JasonParis
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That's insufficient - the whole point of planning is to avoid failures before building - and it also posit that they couldn't do better in the first place. Figure it out.
AoD
toronto647
Active Member
Lol imagine metrolinx expropriating synagogues or churches or temples. There would be a community outpour, protests and even media articles picking up on it. In this case not 1 but 2 mosques seem to be getting expropriated based on the initial map as well as a major south asian business hub. Little Jamaica has been getting media outpour but nothing for this muslim south asian community.
allengeorge
Senior Member
IIRC one of the big reasons Metrolinx gave for not putting the line on Overlea is because it would have blocked access to the church there. Expropriating two (?) mosques as per the posters above ... seems tone-deaf.
toronto647
Active Member
It would potentially impact the 2 following mosques
1) Masjid Darussalam - 4 Thorncliffe Park Dr, East York, ON M4H 1H1
2) Islamic Society of Toronto - 20 Overlea Blvd, East York, ON M4H 1A4
Both seem to be getting expropriated based on the map Metrolinx provided and in the event they are saved by a few mere meters their prayers will likely be disturbed as well as parking spaces will be gone affecting accessibility for seniors and the most vulnerable.
Coolstar
Senior Member
Not great indeed. Hopefully, the community is at least compensated/financial relief or an alternate solution is considered. Bound to be opposition ahead.
toronto647
Active Member
Personally I am not affected by this decision the very least bit. The only thing that eerks me is that Metrolinx decided to bypass the original alignment citing concerns with affecting the entrance way for 1 Church and now is outright expropriating 2 mosques lol Where is the justice in that.
I am not a religious person but can still see how that is a serious equity issue.
ssiguy2
Senior Member
Toronto is use to these monster TTC Rockets but the reality is that very few systems use the huge, wide trains like Toronto.
The current SkyTrain Expo Line capacity with it's 80 meter stations is around 25,000 PPHPD. Of course these capacity numbers don't reflect reality as they basically assume that nobody carries luggage, bags, and everyone is 120 pounds. The real capacity is about 20,000. The lines are built to be expanded to 105 meters meaning that Expo/Mill/EG lines have the potential capacity of roughly the current Yonge Line is now.
105 meter trains running every 90 seconds is more than enough capacity for the OL for MANY decades to come and possible forever.
The current SkyTrain Expo Line capacity with it's 80 meter stations is around 25,000 PPHPD. Of course these capacity numbers don't reflect reality as they basically assume that nobody carries luggage, bags, and everyone is 120 pounds. The real capacity is about 20,000. The lines are built to be expanded to 105 meters meaning that Expo/Mill/EG lines have the potential capacity of roughly the current Yonge Line is now.
105 meter trains running every 90 seconds is more than enough capacity for the OL for MANY decades to come and possible forever.
nfitz
Superstar
I suspect the engineering decision to move the track had nothing to do with any religious buildings, and that's simply the kind of excuses the PR folks come up with after-the-fact to justify something. Time to get out the popcorn!
It's a bizarre organization. Normally you list pros and cons on something. Metrolinx's policy is to only have pros, more pros, and let's hire Baghdad Bob to add some stuff to it as well!
The math isn't working. 20,000/80*105 is 26,520.
Also the 20,000 number (let alone 25,000) doesn't work. I think you are looking at crush capacity, not peak capacity. Crush capacity works for infrequent service, because you can spend more time crushing everyone in, and especially out. But for frequent service you must use peak capacity. TTC uses 220 passengers for a 50-metre SRT train, this would become 352 (compare to 670 for a wider 92-metre long Line 4 train).
If you run every 90 seconds, you have 40 trains an hour. 40 multiplied by 352 is only 14,080. Perhaps 15,000 with the more efficient Vancouver train configurations on the Mark II and Mark IIIs - but not 20,000.
Depends how wide they are. As wide as the Canada Line - maybe. As wide as Expo line - I'm not so sure. I've talked about 2.65-m wide (as on Eglinton and Finch) being too narrow. But Expo line is 6-inches even narrow at 2.49m-wide! Even a Toronto downtown streetcar is wider!
At the same time there's been suggest of 80-metre trains rather than 100-metre on Ontario Line! If they are full width - probably fine. If they are 2.49 m, forget it.
There's too many combinations and permutations!
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innsertnamehere
Superstar
Quick estimate of impact. Takes out several large industrial buildings along Banigan Drive, a self storage facility along Beth Nealson, as well as the abandoned former Leaside rail station. I wonder how much of the original Art Deco structure is left under the horrible renovations.
Agreed this is looking like a PR disaster in the making. Should have stuck it at their original location on the east side of Beth Nealson, which is away from community assets and kills only a handful of businesses.
Agreed this is looking like a PR disaster in the making. Should have stuck it at their original location on the east side of Beth Nealson, which is away from community assets and kills only a handful of businesses.
Rainforest
Senior Member
But there is a limited choice of locations for the MSF. The trains need to be stored somewhere, and perhaps they just couldn't find a better spot given that the whole line goes through rather dense areas, or ravines.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Except we know that there are other options available through what little information they have shared; plus it isn't like this choice precludes the need for expropriation whereas other sites requires it.
AoD
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Allandale25
Senior Member
afransen
Senior Member
Extend it out past Line 4 and find some industrial land up there!
Northern Light
Superstar
Greenwood, Greenwood, Greenwood.
That's why the Relief Line made more sense, and still does.
EnviroTO
Senior Member
Why would they put storage yard close to the station and break up so many properties, and have such a strange yard layout? Seems like the obvious solution would be something like this:
