Toronto MGM-Cadillac Fairview Casino Proposal for Exhibition Place | ?m | ?s | Cadillac Fairview
- Thread starter Traynor
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That's the way I see it too. I think the aesthetics of the proposal can be improved a little bit, but the rationale behind it is pretty sound IMO.
I'm a fan of extending either the DRL or the Yonge Subway (depending on how the downtown section is configured and whether or not the DRL is built as an independent line or connected with University-Spadina) westward along Lake Shore, and then north along Dufferin. The site is decently served by transit now, but a more consistent draw at the Ex beyond the occasional sporting event will significantly boost the appeal of a westward subway extension into the area. Liberty Village would significantly benefit from that as well.
The Ex is the perfect site in Toronto for an 'entertainment zone' comprising sports, shows, and yes a little gambling. It's easily accessible by both transit and roads, and it's well buffered from adjacent areas (lake on the south side, Gardiner and then rail corridor on the north side). If there's any place in Toronto to have something like this, it's either the Ex or the Portlands.
Southcore
Active Member
I agree. If Oxford/Sands don't end up getting it they can put the casino in Markham/Hamilton/wherever else in the GTHA.
jje1000
Senior Member
Huge concerns about the future of the EX, especially in its future location separated from the rest of the CNE grounds. It also seems like one large building, making outdoor circulation harder than what we have now.
DtTO
Active Member
I really hope this plan never comes into fruition. We have a perfectly good alternative that is actually integrated into the city rather than a suburban shit stain on our waterfront. Yes, the CNE grounds are underutilized, but we shouldn't treat them so poorly as to include a suburban style casino. Southcore and Cityplace were underutilized at one point too.
muller877
Senior Member
A few small transit/automobile upgrades could turn this into a very connected site with or without the DRL:
1. A better Queens Quay streetcar line. Extending the southerly track position to just before Bathurst to remove 2 stop lights from the streetcar.
2. A better Lakeshore/Bathurst intersection. Tunnelling the streetcar before Bathurst & Queens Quay to Fleet St. Interconnection with Bathurst line via a Y on Fleet St (Bathurst remains 100% above ground). If a streetcar needs to get from Bathurst to Queens Quay they will use the lighthouse loop.
3. Converting Fleet St into a pedestian/bike path (simply closing it off to automobiles for now). Lakeshore to Bathurst North for auto's is via Fort York (and Fork York is access to all condos).
4. Bathurst both ways south of Fort York will be 1 lane each way plus turning lanes (and a dedicated streetcar lane)
Other than pedestrian crossings and drive-ways, Queens Quay streetcar would have 2 lights between Union and Exhibition (Fort York and Strachan).
I think the improved Bathurst/Lakeshore intersection would speed up traffic enough (less time to cycle through all the turn options, fewer streetcars, smaller street so less time for pedestrians to cross, etc) that there would be an incremental improvement in automobile time during rush-hour (even with less roadway)...a win-win for everyone!
5. Queens Quay & Bathurst Streetcar stops at both Exhibition GO and casino in the CNE. Line is free from Union or Exhibition to casino with Go Train use (Presto implemented)
6. Continue the Queens Quay line to Dufferin loop to interconnect with Dufferin Bus. No Dufferin streetcar due to width and cost issues (If you ask for too much, nothing will happen!)
7. Lake Shore/Jameson/Gardiner off-ramps/Dunn/British Columbia becomes a traffic circle intersection with stop lights at all intersections (the British have these intersections in the SW and they are amazing).
8. A temporary Liberty Village/King St stop on the Georgetown/Milton GO line (until the second downtown station between Bathurst and Spadina is developed)
9. The DRL when it is developed does not need to connect directly to this project. Whichever route is chosen, extend the Queens Quay LRT line up Dufferin (underground) to meet the DRL
edit...I forgot to mention the reduced time to travel on Lake Shore since there will be less lights through the Ex (and pedestrians are grade-seperated). So with all of the incremental changes to the roadway there would be significant benefits to autos, pedestrians, bikes and transit.
1. A better Queens Quay streetcar line. Extending the southerly track position to just before Bathurst to remove 2 stop lights from the streetcar.
2. A better Lakeshore/Bathurst intersection. Tunnelling the streetcar before Bathurst & Queens Quay to Fleet St. Interconnection with Bathurst line via a Y on Fleet St (Bathurst remains 100% above ground). If a streetcar needs to get from Bathurst to Queens Quay they will use the lighthouse loop.
3. Converting Fleet St into a pedestian/bike path (simply closing it off to automobiles for now). Lakeshore to Bathurst North for auto's is via Fort York (and Fork York is access to all condos).
4. Bathurst both ways south of Fort York will be 1 lane each way plus turning lanes (and a dedicated streetcar lane)
Other than pedestrian crossings and drive-ways, Queens Quay streetcar would have 2 lights between Union and Exhibition (Fort York and Strachan).
I think the improved Bathurst/Lakeshore intersection would speed up traffic enough (less time to cycle through all the turn options, fewer streetcars, smaller street so less time for pedestrians to cross, etc) that there would be an incremental improvement in automobile time during rush-hour (even with less roadway)...a win-win for everyone!
5. Queens Quay & Bathurst Streetcar stops at both Exhibition GO and casino in the CNE. Line is free from Union or Exhibition to casino with Go Train use (Presto implemented)
6. Continue the Queens Quay line to Dufferin loop to interconnect with Dufferin Bus. No Dufferin streetcar due to width and cost issues (If you ask for too much, nothing will happen!)
7. Lake Shore/Jameson/Gardiner off-ramps/Dunn/British Columbia becomes a traffic circle intersection with stop lights at all intersections (the British have these intersections in the SW and they are amazing).
8. A temporary Liberty Village/King St stop on the Georgetown/Milton GO line (until the second downtown station between Bathurst and Spadina is developed)
9. The DRL when it is developed does not need to connect directly to this project. Whichever route is chosen, extend the Queens Quay LRT line up Dufferin (underground) to meet the DRL
edit...I forgot to mention the reduced time to travel on Lake Shore since there will be less lights through the Ex (and pedestrians are grade-seperated). So with all of the incremental changes to the roadway there would be significant benefits to autos, pedestrians, bikes and transit.
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Thanos
Active Member
As per 680 news, I think I was listening to them, all the current buildings at the EX grounds will be kept and in fact completely renovated. Also, MGM has asked that the province include a stop at the casino site from the new Pearson line.
That would be a long walk. The UP veers away from the Lakeshore line east of there, so it would be at least a 500m walk from the station to the casino. I can see the rationale for doing it, but the layout just doesn't seem to work.
Of course I guess they would put in a stop at Parkdale (Queen & Dufferin), and then run a shuttle from there directly to the casino. Would also serve the Queen Streetcar and the Dufferin Bus crowd. Maybe run it from Dufferin Station.
Bogtrotter
Senior Member
I do prefer this location over Front street, but I have to say the rendering looks incredibly dull- like a suburban mall complex. I do like the idea of renovating and improving existing structures however. As it stands if it's this or the Oxford project with the park, giant atrium and glorious Foster towers I would vote for the latter all day everyday and twice on Sunday.
waterloowarrior
Senior Member
Big Daddy
Senior Member
Just for comparison. IMO this thing should be downtown. The Oxford proposal would help to heal a railway scar in the heart of the city and keep the energy and vitality downtown.
jaycola
Active Member
The google maps image is while the Ex is on.
I think the proposal fits in with the Exhibition quite nicely. Most of the land they are using appears to be parking and trailer storage. What is preserved, in full, are all of the buildings and attractions that bring us to the Ex. The Horse Palace, Horticulture and food buildings among them.
What is moved across Lakeshore is the Midway. I don't think that will detract from the experience in the slightest. To be honest, my kids haven't cared for the rides there since they were little. Canada's Wonderland is much better if you want those type of amusements. For those looking for the rides and games, it's just a short stroll away.
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jje1000
Senior Member
Not the Food and Queen 'Lizabeth buildings though. No big loss, but still.
As for the associated infrastructure, they should be paying for it, not us.
Privateer
New Member
I was reading everyone's doom and gloom comments about loss of buildings etc, and you beat me to posting the Satellite imagery of where this would be located. Basically on top of empty lots. I think if MGM were involved in the revitalization of Ontario Place, it would alleviate people's concern about the midway rides. I think having one giant Entertainmentplex is pretty good idea, think about it where else in the world, could you assemble something like this?. A large outdoor concert venue, check. A large open air stadium, that can also do double duty for concerts, check. A fair sized indoor arena check, a sizeable and unique collection of event buildings, check, a unique outdoor location for integrated amusement park/midway, check. As for the comments that this is "outside of downtown, and too far". Wow some people are picky and lazy. The distance from the CNE grounds to MTCC is certainly walkable, or maybe 10 mins on a street car from union or a cab. The way people are talking, you make it sound like this thing is in the hinterlands of Scarborough. The Liberty Vilage/King West area is certainly within reasonable walking distance. The Las Vegas strip, from end to end is longer than the distance from the MTCC to the Ex grounds.
androiduk
Senior Member
Regarding the Hotel X that is soon to be constructed; What I got from the Star article is that the developers of the hotel have an exclusive agreement with the CNE that they are to be the only hotel on the grounds. MGM said they would try and negotiate some kind of deal with them. The hotel developers definitely have the upper hand and if this casino is approved it wouldn't surprise me to see them go for extra height here.