Toronto Massey Tower Condos | 206.95m | 60s | MOD Developments | Hariri Pontarini

[Skeezix]

I don't think Tuscani was suggesting that it ought to have remained as is.

 

[Tuscani01]

"Man, this is one of the few sites where I actually wish we were getting a park instead."
Tuscani01

The existing "park" was nothing more than a garbage, mud, pigeon and rat infested hell-hole, including that of 197.
Kudos to Gary Switzer & Co for, if for nothing more, than cleaning-up that mess.


Regards,
J T

Did you even bother to look at the example of what I would've preferred?

 

[AndreaPalladio]

Why didn't you buy the lot and build the park? As Abby Rockefeller did with Greenacre Park?

 

[Tuscani01]

Why didn't you buy the lot and build the park? As Abby Rockefeller did with Greenacre Park?

Oh trust me, I would have considered it if I had the money to do so. I have nothing against this project in particular. I just think the site had way more potential, especially considering the location between two historic buildings.

 

[ksun]

I don' t think we need a park here. The land is too small, and such tiny parkettes will do nothing to improve quality of life downtown. There are quite a few of them east of Yonge between Carlton and Bloor as far as I know, and people hardly use them except walking by.

If we want a park, then have a decent sized one, where people can walk for 5 minutes. What will a park of this size do, except to boast, we have XXX parks downtown? There is a park right beside Eaton Center, the Trinity Square - which is like a hidden oasis in the middle of the city. I don't think have many tiny green space all over downtown, which sound pleasant, is going to do anything.

 

[A Torontonian Now]

Not sure that an XXX park would be something to boast about, although it probably would draw a crowd.

 

[Tewder]

What a great idea it would be to pedestrianize Shuter Street between Yonge and Victoria. It would provide a beautiful downtown public space with a renovated Massy hall as backdrop. There are probably some traffic flow issues but it's only one small east/west block. Bollards could be used to open up when necessary.

 

[bilked]

I'm all for this. But it would require a rethink of access to the Eaton's Centre Parking lot for cars coming from the south, as you can't turn left into the parking garage off northbound yonge (and can't turn left to get onto southbound Yonge from Dundas, etc).

 

[Skeezix]

What a great idea it would be to pedestrianize Shuter Street between Yonge and Victoria. It would provide a beautiful downtown public space with a renovated Massy hall as backdrop. There are probably some traffic flow issues but it's only one small east/west block. Bollards could be used to open up when necessary.

It will never happen. Eaton Centre parkade ingress and egress can't easily be shifted north and south on Yonge, given the pedestrian traffic, and Cadillac Fairview would undoubtedly go after the city in injurious affection. It would impede ambulance access to St. Michael's emergency. Some of the buildings on Yonge have sole vehicular access for loading at the rear via Enoch Square, and they would also presumably go after the City in injurious affection if they were deprived of it.

 

[Skeezix]

I don' t think we need a park here. The land is too small, and such tiny parkettes will do nothing to improve quality of life downtown. There are quite a few of them east of Yonge between Carlton and Bloor as far as I know, and people hardly use them except walking by.

If we want a park, then have a decent sized one, where people can walk for 5 minutes. What will a park of this size do, except to boast, we have XXX parks downtown? There is a park right beside Eaton Center, the Trinity Square - which is like a hidden oasis in the middle of the city. I don't think have many tiny green space all over downtown, which sound pleasant, is going to do anything.

I disagree. Nicely designed parkettes at key locations, especially in relation to cultural hubs likes Massey and Elgin & Winter Garden, can be a wonderful amenity. Different sized parks serve different purposes, and a park doesn't become worthy or valuable merely because it hits some arbitrary "decent" size. NYC, as pointed out by Tuscani, has been pioneering the use of some small sites as public open space and has been quite successful at it. They do, in fact, improve the quality of life if done right. It was actually a City objective for quite sometime to redevelop this particular area as open space to take advantage of its key location, but there was never any money for it. There isn't an abundance of parkland in this area (parks "east of Yonge between Carlton and Bloor" don't really serve the office workers, residents and tourists here), given how many people there are.

I'm not saying that it should have been a park, or that a park would have been better. The opportunity was truly lost when 205 Yonge was sold. And a 60-storey building was needed to leverage the restoration of 197 Yonge and the contributions to Massey. And we're getting a great building. All I am saying is that a park here could have been a great thing, if we're "blue-skying" it, and to dismiss it as a parkette misses the point of what it would have achieved.

 

[Tewder]

It will never happen. Eaton Centre parkade ingress and egress can't easily be shifted north and south on Yonge, given the pedestrian traffic, and Cadillac Fairview would undoubtedly go after the city in injurious affection. It would impede ambulance access to St. Michael's emergency. Some of the buildings on Yonge have sole vehicular access for loading at the rear via Enoch Square, and they would also presumably go after the City in injurious affection if they were deprived of it.

Could the parkade entrance/exit tunnel under Yonge somehow across to Victoria? Perhaps one lane could be maintained one way across Shuter still leaving more breathing space for Massey Hall?

 

[Edward Skira]

There's a subway under there and it would cost a fortune. No need to mess with Shuter.

 

[thecharioteer]

There has been talk about widening the sidewalks in front of Massey Hall once their restoration is complete and a sizeable portion of Massey Tower's Section 37 contribution is for local streetscaping. It would be nice to see a rethink of the public realm on Shuter between Yonge and Victoria along the lines of what Woodcliffe did on Market Street.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

There has been talk about widening the sidewalks in front of Massey Hall once their restoration is complete and a sizeable portion of Massey Tower's Section 37 contribution is for local streetscaping. It would be nice to see a rethink of the public realm on Shuter between Yonge and Victoria along the lines of what Woodcliffe did on Market Street.

Is there any information available on the public art component of the project? The small space that was the old parkette seems like a logical place for something spectacular.

AoD

 

[Tewder]

There has been talk about widening the sidewalks in front of Massey Hall once their restoration is complete and a sizeable portion of Massey Tower's Section 37 contribution is for local streetscaping. It would be nice to see a rethink of the public realm on Shuter between Yonge and Victoria along the lines of what Woodcliffe did on Market Street.

Agreed. Again, just taking one lane of traffic and making Shuter one-way would make a world of difference. Remove the on-street parking on the west-bound side too. Add some quality pavings and maybe some lighting and benches and it would create a nice forecourt for patrons at Massey Hall.