Toronto Lower Don Lands Redevelopment | ?m | ?s | Waterfront Toronto

I have no difficulty w/housing here, but I concur with much of your opening.

I do think answering questions like, where does the core site its next large hospital, and where might it site another University campus, and where might we build a new High School with a full sports field; etc etc. would be good to have answered
before we develop the largest chunk of land next to built-up urban core in North America.

*****

On affordable housing, that's another issue, much of what has been discussed is workplace affordable rental which is ~80% of market value...or about 2k per month.

There are a whole lot of people in Toronto who can't 'afford' anything like that.

The argument made is that the density makes it possible to offer more of this or smattering of 'deeply affordable/RGI' units.

Not buying, that's predicated on the government not putting any cash into the housing and instead having private builders deliver it, as a profit.

I would argue that this is the wrong-type of housing, delivered in the most ineffective way imaginable outside of U.S. section 8 vouchers.

It should be private-sector, purpose-built rental only (no condos) at market + government financed co-op, non-profit and RGI housing (which may be blended with market units as per the Vienna model in order
to make it perpetually self-financing post construction.
Thanks. Appreciate the explanation, felt kinda stupid asking but can’t help but think that most folks don’t know the details and just echo “affordable housing” because it sounds good.

Reason why I suggested no residency on Villiers because at low density, everyone will argue “well who gets to live there?!” - and if the port lands turn out to be as great as we hope, then it’ll be pretty pricey.. adding density won’t lower those prices they’ll just provide more profit for developers.

I just don’t want to see all the green space created turned into the parsley on a steak dinner.

But a (public) educational district tied to nature and science (STEM to stem) would be great, and I could see a lot of K-12 programs tied to conservation efforts in the Leslie Spit.

I don’t know if Rebel is still sitting on its application to expand to a mega club, but I’d hope someone expropriates the place before that’s pitched.
 
Thanks. Appreciate the explanation, felt kinda stupid asking but can’t help but think that most folks don’t know the details and just echo “affordable housing” because it sounds good.

I think most folks do have a sense of the details; but the problem is that most here at UT are doing rather well economically (not a bad thing) but it does put some huge distance between where a perception of affordable is vs the reality for those on the lowest rungs of the ladder economically.

I also think there is default perception that 'affordable housing' will include a meaningful component of RGI; but that is not necessarily true.

I would simply say at ~350k per unit build cost on publicly owned land we could build 2,000 RGI/deeply affordable units for 700M.

That's a mortgage-free, cash-version of the investment; rolled equally over 10 years, that's an annual cost of 70M which represents ~0.45% of the annual budget of the City of Toronto.

The notion we can't afford to do it properly is horse-twaddle.

Mix that in with 1,500 non-profit units, financed by CMHC and 1,500 private, full-market rental and you have something that would make a great difference and be only 5,000 units, and free up some room for other functions.

Reason why I suggested no residency on Villiers because at low density, everyone will argue “well who gets to live there?!” -

As noted, I'm fine with medium density, just not super-high, particularly w/o having put the necessary supports in place to make it work.

I just don’t want to see all the green space created turned into the parsley on a steak dinner.

I agree, and I think the answer to that, in part, is fully planning out the entire Portlands at a high level, with a clear density number and other vital uses protected and making sure we get the greenspace right.

We can include more in the balance of the Portlands, particularly by widening the greenway to the south of river to provide a better, protected connection to the spit.

But a (public) educational district tied to nature and science (STEM to stem) would be great, and I could see a lot of K-12 programs tied to conservation efforts in the Leslie Spit.

I think the clear commitment at this point, outside of Villiers, is to a cement district to serve the construction industry, which does make sense while we have a boom on our hands in the area.

As well as the media/production sector.

I'm happy to support those two.

The Portlands Energy Centre {gas plant) isn't going anywhere soon, and there is a need for a City yard of some type as well.

That still leaves the vacant lands at the Hearn, Rebel and associated lands, a dubiously located postal facility and a couple of other post-industrial sites, plus the current area for soil remediation.

There is room to address some other functions, but to do that we need to map it all out and ask those questions; where is this next thing going (Hospital, post-secondary etc.)
 
I knew someone who bought into Regent Park years back. They moved out and rented it until they were ready to sell to help finance their detached home. So the unit was “affordable” only once, but allowed someone the ability to build equity for their next home AND created housing stock. Cool. There’s some good things in there but like I said, it was affordable ONCE.

Worth noting that when we talk about affordable units in Regent Park, we're talking about TCHC buildings not market rate condos. The condos are most certainly not affordable housing, regardless of how much cheaper they were at one time. The best part of the Regent revitalization is that many outsiders would be hard pressed to identify which buildings are which (hint: the TCHC units have way better gardens).

***

For what it's worth I'm in favour of these increased densities on Villiers, and I'm not finding the arguments against it particularly compelling (especially considering how much of the Port Lands potential exists beyond Villiers).
 
Toronto really is so lucky to have the Don Valley (and the Humber Valley) running through it.

Caught this yesterday.

It just blows my mind that this scene is in the heart of the city, a mere 2 km from Yonge & Bloor.

The Lower Don Land Redevelopment will hopefully one day be as beautiful and attract as much wildlife.

355685049_10167699711470297_6183493770934776126_n.jpg
 
Toronto really is so lucky to have the Don Valley (and the Humber Valley) running through it.

Caught this yesterday.

It just blows my mind that this scene is in the heart of the city, a mere 2 km from Yonge & Bloor.

The Lower Don Land Redevelopment will hopefully one day be as beautiful and attract as much wildlife.

Where is this from exactly btw ?
 
Riverdale Farm Pond or Don Valley Brick Works Park is my guess...

...but those are a bit more than 2 km away Yonge & Bloor.
 
Riverdale Farm Pond or Don Valley Brick Works Park is my guess...

...but those are a bit more than 2 km away Yonge & Bloor.

It's almost certainly the Brickworks, and that is 2.92km from the corner of Yonge and Bloor, on foot.

Home to Snapping Turtle, Blanding's Turtle, Red Tail Hawk, Beaver, Heron and a few other critters along with the odd visiting deer.
 
It's almost certainly the Brickworks, and that is 2.92km from the corner of Yonge and Bloor, on foot.

Home to Snapping Turtle, Blanding's Turtle, Red Tail Hawk, Beaver, Heron and a few other critters along with the odd visiting deer.
Yep, it's only one of two places I know that those water lily thingies grow like that from said corner. And where as the water needs to still enough for them to grow as such.
 
Worth noting that when we talk about affordable units in Regent Park, we're talking about TCHC buildings not market rate condos. The condos are most certainly not affordable housing, regardless of how much cheaper they were at one time. The best part of the Regent revitalization is that many outsiders would be hard pressed to identify which buildings are which (hint: the TCHC units have way better gardens).

***

For what it's worth I'm in favour of these increased densities on Villiers, and I'm not finding the arguments against it particularly compelling (especially considering how much of the Port Lands potential exists beyond Villiers).
Thanks for the clarification on Regent. I should probably look up what exactly is being allocated where in the area.

Tell me though- what’s the compelling argument FOR oversaturating the area?

I just feel like we’re warehousing people in this city without a thought to quality of life.

Increasing every project’s density in the downtown core is easy- because it’s full of progressives afraid to be called NIMBY, and it seems easy to pool new residents where we have transit and infrastructure. That it also benefits developers, well *shrug*

I’d love to see how many density advocates have back yards, cottages, vacation homes, healthy vacation budgets or family they frequently visit in the 905- y’know ways to escape the “crowded” city. Because as we saw during the lockdowns - plenty of folks don’t, and free public outdoor space is important.

We don’t have enough Grange Parks for everyone here, or Riverdale Parks. We already lost raildeck, and one can only imagine how rammed the Island is going to be in ten years. The ravine system is great, but if you’re looking at the catchment area for the Port Lands, you’re riding your bike North a couple kms before you’ve got a place to lay out. Corktown Commons is beautiful, which I imagine the thousands of residents coming to Canary will also come to see.

So it might be compelling to “solve” our problems by making them someone else’s- but maybe we could keep the port lands low density so me and everyone else without an A-Frame in PEC don’t have to compete with 4,000 more people for a 2sqft patch of Cherry Beach.

I trust though none of this will get solved in our forum here. The developers will have their way with it, and cash their cheques regardless of how neighbourhoods are failed.
 
Tell me though- what’s the compelling argument FOR oversaturating the area?

I just feel like we’re warehousing people in this city without a thought to quality of life.

Assuming a good mix of architects and developers (see West Don Lands) along with the wonderful public realm plans... including (16 hectares of parkland) the new waterfront public art trail along the new river, Promontory Parks North and South and Villiers Park etc.

... I'd venture the quality of life here one day will be second to none in the city. 🔮

public-realm.jpg

https://trcaca.s3.ca-central-1.amazonaws.com/app/uploads/2017/02/17173811/May92009MVVAWTpresentation.pdf
 
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Assuming a good mix of architects and developers (see West Don Lands) along with the wonderful public realm plans... including (16 hectares of parkland) the new waterfront public art trail along the new river, Promontory Parks North and South and Villiers Park etc.

... I'd venture the quality of life here one day will be second to none in the city. 🔮

View attachment 487903
https://trcaca.s3.ca-central-1.amazonaws.com/app/uploads/2017/02/17173811/May92009MVVAWTpresentation.pdf
This is a good point, and something that makes the comparison apples to oranges to density in the main core. The space to spread out is immense, compared to little postage stmap parkettes. This is high quality trail and recreation space that is accessible (doesn't require a steep descent) and right on the doorstep.

It'll also be a 10 minute bike ride to Leslie Spit, if it gets too busy for ya.
 
Assuming a good mix of architects and developers (see West Don Lands) along with the wonderful public realm plans... including (16 hectares of parkland) the new waterfront public art trail along the new river, Promontory Parks North and South and Villiers Park etc.

... I'd venture the quality of life here one day will be second to none in the city. 🔮

View attachment 487903
https://trcaca.s3.ca-central-1.amazonaws.com/app/uploads/2017/02/17173811/May92009MVVAWTpresentation.pdf

Though one quibble - this is an old design.

AoD
 
Hello,

Thank you for registering for our public meeting on June 19th, with the City of Toronto and Create TO. You can watch a recording of the meeting here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9TOQX9MOKc

Input gathered will help update plans to reflect public priorities. Please continue sharing your feedback through this survey, which is open until July 9: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/Y6TVCXS

If you asked a question in the meeting that was not answered, we will be posting a meeting summary that includes answers to all the questions we didn’t get to in the coming weeks. We will send another email when that summary is available, and it will also be posted here: https://portlandsto.ca/public-information-centres/

If you have any other questions, email us at info@waterfrontoronto.ca.

Warm regards,

Waterfront Toronto
 
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