Toronto Forma | 308m | 84s | Great Gulf | Gehry Partners

This was indeed unexpected news! I wonder if there will be a PATH element to this development? Also, one of the towers could contain a hotel component which would lower the number of condos needing to be sold. And on a more far-fetched note, I wonder if the TSO could sell the air rights above Roy Thomson Hall to Mirvish for extra density to get sufficient funds for a serious accoustic makeover of the interior and some work on making the exterior a little more friendly, or even sell RTH outright to a developer and negotiate for a new performance space in the podium of the Mirvish development.
 
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Wow, those buildings are spectacular. I like the fact Gehry stated he won't compromise on the design too much. The best part is the scale 80+ puts Toronto in the big leagues! These will be awe-inspiring.

My only concern is the mentality of some people. Great things make some people feel small. Rather than identify with greatness, they feel like its a personal affront.
 
As exciting as a proposal this is, I've given up trying to read everything posted in this thread. You guys are adding pages every day.

Someone wake me up when we get the final renders...
 
Grimace said:
Loss of Princess of Wales If there is such an overcapacity of theatres in the city, one might wonder why Mirvish put up such a fight to prevent Dancap from acquiring the Canon Theatre. Mirvish cannot on one hand seek to be a near monopolist on mainstream theatre in the city and at the same time complain about too much theatre capacity. I'm not saying it should prevent this project from going ahead, but as someone who attends musical theatre occasionally it will be sad to see Princess of Wales go because in my view it is far superior to our other theatres. The other theatres like Royal Alex, Mirvish and Elgin are nicer to look at, but when the lights are down the Princess of Wales is a way better place to watch the show - better in my view than most Broadway theatres.
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Two really good points you raise. The PoW is certainly not the most beautiful theatre in the city (see Ed Mirvish, Royal Alex, Elgin & Wintergarden auditoriums) but definitely the best in Toronto for it's massive stage/backstage, modern amenities and sight-lines. I've been in two theatres in New York that I can think of that I'd put on par with the PoW Theatre but many other Broadway theatres really aren't that terrific, although most have beautiful auditoriums and a whole lot of history in those rooms. The whole issue of pushing Dancap out of the picture must have them freaking out right about now what with Mirvish making statements that he has an oversupply of seats & more than he is able to fill each night.
 
Xray_Crystal_Junkie said:
As exciting as a proposal this is, I've given up trying to read everything posted in this thread. You guys are adding pages every day.

Someone wake me up when we get the final renders...
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Thanks for this useless post.... How can you be upset with people for posting what you think are worthless comments and then you write this non sense.
 
Sixrings:

I don't think he meant that he is upset at people posting comments but more of a comment on the sheer amount of conversation within this thread.

AoD
 
It is a huge loss and waste to sacrifice the POW, no matter how you look at it. The fact that it sits empty, at times, is more of a reflection on the fact that Mirvish has killed off all competition but hasn't replaced the content. It's the city that suffers for this, by the way. Now that he is the secure and unchallenged king of mainstream theatre he can turn his sights to other pet projects, and this is what is happening here.

Quite simply, there is no need to destroy one of the best entertainment venues in the city, along with a whole chunk of the fabric that makes King Street West so successful to start with, for condos... and let's look past the spin for a second: these are just condos, even if really pretty and really tall ones.

As others here have argued, there is nothing to say that a development this awesome in scale (including the gehriest of boffo towers) couldn't have preserved frontages along King Street and the POW. In fact, this is what is happening all over the city, and very successfully. I'm surprised, given Gehry's alleged reverence for his hometown, that he wouldn't be a bit more sensitive to these issues.
 
Tewder:

You seem to have neglected to mention that at the podium level would be retail, OCADU and his art collection. Not just condos as you have made it out to be. As to the preservation of said frontages - no one else is proposing anything by Gehry either, and since when does reverence equate to stasis and not creating new things?

AoD
 
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AlvinofDiaspar said:
Tewder:

You seem to have neglected to mention that at the podium level would be retail, OCADU and his art collection. Not just condos as you have made it out to be. As to the preservation of said frontages - no one else is proposing anything by Gehry either, and since when does reverence equate to stasis and not creating new things?

AoD
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"David Mirvish announces permanent home

Theatre Impressario David Mirvish, announced in the summer of 2010 that Theatre Museum Canada will have a permanent home in a new development to be built at 355 King Street West. Located in the heart of Toronto's theatre district, the museum will be a vital addition to Canada's rich theatrical heritage.

Planning is underway for an exciting museum that will be an integral part of Canada's theatre, past, present & future. Its 900 square metres (about 9600 square feet) will include space for dynamic exhibits, presentations and educational programming."

For the record: That development never happened.

First and foremost David Mirvish is a businessman. The carrot of the museum and OCAD are nothing more than wrapping paper to make palatable the fact that the real estate that his family owns is worth way more than their theatre business.
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
Tewder:

You seem to have neglected to mention that at the podium level would be retail, OCADU and his art collection. Not just condos as you have made it out to be. As to the preservation of said frontages - no one else is proposing anything by Gehry either, and since when does reverence equate to stasis and not creating new things?

AoD
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They are creating something new at Five condos on Yonge, yet managing to preserve important existing elements. This is not 'stasis'. Gehry himself did so at the AGO, and we are the richer for it... and does OCAD + Art Gallery = performing arts venue + heritage facades (even if heritage with a small 'h')? Not to me it doesn't.

... and I hate to poo poo something that is clearly ambitious and monumental and 'Gehry'! I just think it could have been approached with more sensitivity. If this were the waterfront, or southcore, or any number of other areas for development in the city I wouldn't give a hoot, but I feel about this area/block the way many feel about restaurant row. These areas are a vast part of what makes much of the core successful... so where is the sense in destroying them?


pw20 said:
First and foremost David Mirvish is a businessman. The carrot of the museum and OCAD are nothing more than wrapping paper to make palatable the fact that the real estate that his family owns is worth way more than their theatre business.
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Yes!
 
Tewder:

But why should we replicate 5ive in every context? That stretch of Yonge isn't anything like King (both across the street and on the other side of John), and are the buildings in question so special that we can't afford to give Gehry blank canvas to practice his art? Any city like New York or Chicago wouldn't have made two hoots - and you fault Toronto for having the audacity to replace some 2nd rate painted brick heritage buildings? If one is going to preach the mantra of no small plans, one have to keep in mind that said plans have always required judicious sacrifices. We have a surplus of 'sensitivity' in this city, what we need is verve in this instance.

AoD
 
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pw20 said:
"David Mirvish announces permanent home

Theatre Impressario David Mirvish, announced in the summer of 2010 that Theatre Museum Canada will have a permanent home in a new development to be built at 355 King Street West. Located in the heart of Toronto's theatre district, the museum will be a vital addition to Canada's rich theatrical heritage.

Planning is underway for an exciting museum that will be an integral part of Canada's theatre, past, present & future. Its 900 square metres (about 9600 square feet) will include space for dynamic exhibits, presentations and educational programming."

For the record: That development never happened.

First and foremost David Mirvish is a businessman. The carrot of the museum and OCAD are nothing more than wrapping paper to make palatable the fact that the real estate that his family owns is worth way more than their theatre business.
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How had the development "never happened", when it is happening at the very moment?

http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/showth...ngton-Eastons-48-44s-P-S)?p=667474#post667474
http://urbantoronto.ca/news/2012/08/interview-steve-gupta-eastons-group-part-2

Of course, it may end up not happening because
Xray_Crystal_Junkie said:
Caaaaaamon market crash.
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alklay said:
+1 (if only to stop this building)
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milanista said:
What an absolute piece of garbage. I'm willing to sacrifice some of my property value (got a place nearby) for a couple years of a depressed condo market just to ensure this hideous excuse for a proposal doesn't get built. Look at that awful roof element! This is going to make the king of shitty spandrel (300 Front) look like a masterpiece.

King Blue? King Bleck!
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AlvinofDiaspar said:
Tewder:

But why should we replicate 5ive in every context? That stretch of Yonge isn't anything like King (both across the street and on the other side of John), and are the buildings in question so special that we can't afford to give Gehry blank canvas to practice his art? Any city like New York or Chicago wouldn't have made two hoots - and you fault Toronto for having the audacity to replace some 2nd rate painted brick heritage buildings? If one is going to preach the mantra of no small plans, one have to keep in mind that said plans have always required judicious sacrifices. We have a surplus of 'sensitivity' in this city, what we need is verve in this instance.

AoD
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I applaud the verve, I truly do. For me it's about context though. Again, if this were southcore, or an undeveloped parcel of land I'd be giddily happy about it. Instead I'm torn.

... and I have no issue with the towers, I should add. I just don't see why they couldn't have been incorporated into the fabric of what already exists. Five condos is doing this well, along with the new-builds at the Distillery District or Massey Tower or even Theatre Park (among many other examples) ... and who's to say that Gehry couldn't have added his signature to the existing fabric in order to tie it in with the towers? The thing is, by inspiring contextual sensitivity in Gehry we may have been establishing a rare and unique body of his oeuvre here in Toronto which would have elevated it above the rest, as has been indicated by what he already did at the AGO.
 
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