UD2
Active Member
I looked back at Crystal Blu renders. The final product pretty much look like late stage Renders. I don't think it's so much the materials used as opposed to the essence of design.
Toronto Emerald Park Condos | 128.92m | 40s | Bazis | Rosario Varacalli
- Thread starter AlbertC
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vz64
Active Member
I hope they will use a good quality cladding, and not for the legal reasons, but to boost their image, considering multiple projects they have in the pipline. They are young company with only few projects built in Toronto and Astana (Kazakhstan).
sunnyraytoronto
Senior Member
In a typical project, I would agree with you with regards to developer not "complying" to their own renderings. If you owned a house, you can do whatever you want to it short of requiring a building permit for additions or rebuilding,... you can change the window and paint the exterior whatever colour you want, add sidings, whatever,... usually. But if that house is classified as a Historical Property,... you can't change anything on the exterior without permission! In the case with EmeraldPark, it seems the local homeowners association (West Lansing Homeowners Association) and the city placed contractual criteria on Bazis to build EmeraldPark exactly as per their final agreement,.... including the leaning "wind swept" top and multi-shaded green glass exterior. The interior is clearly a separate contract between buyer and developer.
Let's make it clear,.... Bazis EmeraldPark is NOT your typical project. With Bazis past performance on CrystalBlu, Bazis reputation on 1 Bloor East where they advertised condos starting in the 200K range and had people lining up for weeks to buy them,... only to increase the starting prices to the 400K range an hour before the sales office openned,... the locals and the city were onto Bazis. So when Bazis came up with their scheme for density transfer from the church next door, exceeding density, exceeding the 100m height limit and building residential in a commercial office zone,.... in exchange for rebuilding the church with a better daycare and new community centre,.... this is the most complex project in North York. Probably the entire city of Toronto,.... not in terms of the strucural design or architecture,... but in terms of all the contracts and criteria the developer is required to go through.
Once EmeraldPark is completed,... what's to ensure the developer doesn't skip out and not rebuild the church and new community centre as per the agreement? It seems that the contract required the developer to transfer the money to the city for the rebuilding of the church and new community centre BEFORE they could get the permit to build EmeraldPark. Does it look like the locals and the city will let Bazis pull a fast one on EmeraldPark?
http://www.westlansing.ca/Development-Updates.aspx
If you want the nitty gritty of the contracts,.... then you will have to do some real digging at City Hall. You're best weapon as a private citizen is the Freedom of Information Act,... it gives you (the public) access to all information that various level of government has,... except personal information,... thus, the document they return to you will have various strings of words/characters blacked out. Depending on the sensitivity of the information, it might be blacked out for a certain time limit. The cost is typically quite nominal per request plus a cost per page,... we're usually talking lunch money here. BTW, I'm still waiting on my Freedom of Information request regarding what the Canadian government knows about Elvis living in Area51. ;P
As per your personal experience with Councillor John Filion with regards to you and your wife wanting to split your 60ft x 130ft lot so that you can maximize your profit on future real estate transaction. If you can reference nearby properties on the same block or same street (especially further from Yonge) that have been allowed to do similar property severance then you should have a very strong case. Or even if you can reference lots with 30ft frontage on your street, you should have a strong case. And if you can't win your case with those examples,... then IMHO, its not really councillor John Filion to blame,.. the blame would be on your lawyer and consultant! On my block in NYCC, we're allowed to split 50ft frontage lot into two 25ft frontage lots (and that has been done too many times to count),... but further away from Yonge (on the same street) they need at least 60ft frontage to do a property severance.
My personal experience with Councillor John Filion is that he definitely leans to the Left and he'll stand by the locals (not neccessarily the NIMBY),... especially if the local homeowner's association or local condo boards are onside. So if you can get your community homeowner association or condo board on your side,... or even a group of neighbours,.. you'll get Councillor John Filion on your side. And you also have to understand, Councillor John Filion hear about complaints and problems all day long, each and everyday,... even on his days off,.... so if you can actually come up with solution that solves some of the issues in North York City Centre,.... you're golden!
I'm sure if Bazis doesn't deliver as promised on EmeraldPark,... councillor John Filion will be more than happy to rename that part of Bogert Ave which EmeraldPark will use as an address to Bazis Folly Lane,.... though, I'm sure many of us could suggest replacing Folly with a better F-word. ;P
sunnyraytoronto
Senior Member
OMG,... vz64, how was I "wrong"? Seriously???
Wow,... vz64,... you have to go back a few years to recall when I was "wrong"? Well, at least you have something in common with my wife!
If you're going to reference something I've said, then dig up that post and quote it directly in it's full context without any misrepresentation. Vz64,... dig up the post where I said the city will not sell the laneway UNLESS IT WAS A COMMERCIAL PROJECT,... I never said that!
You're likely referencing my post #226, 228, 234, 239 (March 2009) of this thread,... where I said "EmeraldPark will NEVER be built".
What version of EmeraldPark was proposed back then? How many storey??? The original EmeraldPark renderings had 56 and 45 storey towers with 3 storey podium (2 retail and 3rd for condo amenities),... this rendering is still on the EmeraldPark boarding and their website: http://www.emeraldparkcondos.com/ Is that version of EmeraldPark being built? NO. Then the submitted specs from Bazis called for 49 and 40 storey condo towers sharing a 3 storey podium (2 retail and 3rd for condo amenities),.... again, is this the version of EmeraldPark being built? NO! vz64, do you know something the city and Bazis doesn't??? Then there was 41 and 32 storeys with 3 storey podium with NO office component,... and the suggestion by Bazis and its sale team that another 9 storey will be added,.. then additional 6 storey,.. then another 5 storey,... This is what happens when a developer starts selling before they even get city approval for building what they're selling,... they don't know what they're selling!
All these versions of EmeraldPark exceeds the 100m height limit of NYCC,... but since GibsonSquare OMB the 100m height limit and Tridel Hullmark is now building over 100m,... that former 100m height limit is history.
Prior to Bazis EmeraldPark, the lot was NOT even zoned for commercial! The western 2/3 of the lot was already zoned for residential since the late 1990's when the city approved two 22 and 25 storey residential condos on that site (developer wanted more but locals fought that, in the end it wasn't worth it for that developer). Prior to that it was to be offices around 1990 but then office market colllapsed. The eastern 1/3 of the lot along Yonge Street was zoned for 100% office in the north half.
Between the western 2/3 lot and the eastern 1/3 lot is the city owned laneway,... their trump card! And it seems the city and local homeowners association used it to ensure Bazis builds what is promised without a bait and switch project, to get more concessions for the community,.... and to get that one floor of office space built onto the third floor of the higher 4 floor podium. Yes, that's a token office space floor,... but its better than nothing. A site near a prime intersection with subway interchange without any office space is rediculous. Personally, I'd be happy if EmeraldPark had 3 towers if the third tower closest to Yonge was an all office tower.
The original versions of Bazis EmeraldPark never had any office component,.... and that was one of my personal beef about those versions,... Anyone who's been here long enough will surely recall me ranting countlessly about 50 residential condos being built in NYCC with only one office tower within the last 15 years since amalgamation,... creating a vertical sleeping community,... and gridlock traffic because everyone is leaving in AM traffic.
GibsonSquare OMB the 100m height limit,... how many floors of office space will GibsonSquare have? NONE! What concession did the developer of GibsonSquare give to the local community???
If Bazis EmeraldPark would have OMB,... they probably would have gotten more storeys added to both towers,... and less concessions to the community,... but it would have added a couple of years to a project that Bazis originally promised to their buyers that would be completed by Dec 2011,.... and the city would never have sold them that city laneway.
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sixrings
Senior Member
They are suppose to rebuild a church?????? What church?????????
UD2
Active Member
^^
Lansing. Right across the street I believe.
Lansing. Right across the street I believe.
sixrings
Senior Member
then what is going to happen to that church land? its going to be redeveloped?
vz64
Active Member
sunnyray, my only point was that you cannot control how things will unfold by simply using some prior agreements, especially on things like choice of cladding... I don't see how you can enforce it in writing that the final shades and the quality of materials will be as per specifications (unless the developer provided some samples of the materials or some other utopian scenario).
BTW, what you said back in 2009 was even stronger phrased than I interpreted. Here is your quote:
In other words, you claimed that unless Bazis comply with all rules, they will not get approval. They did not comply with all rules and they got approved. So, you were wrong, no matter how you try to wrap it up now.
I don't want to go into detail about John Filion behaviour at the COA, sufficient to say that he acted as a typical NIMBY, providing no legitimate reason for refusal (yes, he was provided with detailed information re similar projects in the area), thus draining on city resources and initiating useless appeal to OMB. If you want to know more about this case and others, please PM me and I will be glad to give you some information. I can even meet with you, as I live on Poyntz Ave and do attend WLHA meetings.
BTW, what you said back in 2009 was even stronger phrased than I interpreted. Here is your quote:
In other words, you claimed that unless Bazis comply with all rules, they will not get approval. They did not comply with all rules and they got approved. So, you were wrong, no matter how you try to wrap it up now.
I don't want to go into detail about John Filion behaviour at the COA, sufficient to say that he acted as a typical NIMBY, providing no legitimate reason for refusal (yes, he was provided with detailed information re similar projects in the area), thus draining on city resources and initiating useless appeal to OMB. If you want to know more about this case and others, please PM me and I will be glad to give you some information. I can even meet with you, as I live on Poyntz Ave and do attend WLHA meetings.
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sunnyraytoronto
Senior Member
Me,... I'm cool with Councillor John Filion and enjoy my interactions with him. Yes, he can be a bit stubborn at times,... and sometimes it takes a while for him to understand your point,.... but he'll listen and actually try to do something. And generally, I find that's a lot more than I can say for our other political representatives at other levels of government.
Yes, I remember,.... you're the guy in the big new McMansion on Poyntz with the solar panels,... I'm sure we'll cross paths at WLHA meetings and gatherings,.... and I'm sure we'll be debating some more there,... and here too. ;P
Yes, I remember,.... you're the guy in the big new McMansion on Poyntz with the solar panels,... I'm sure we'll cross paths at WLHA meetings and gatherings,.... and I'm sure we'll be debating some more there,... and here too. ;P
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sunnyraytoronto
Senior Member
Lansing United Church,... directly west of EmeraldPark was used by Bazis for "density transfer",.... increasing the allowable density on the EmeraldPark site,... so they can built taller and put more units at EmeraldPark,.... since the church does not use all the density that is allowed for their property. In exchange,.... Bazis EmeraldPark will rebuild the old church on the same site so it'll have more room for daycare and also house a new community centre. There was talk about the church using parking at EmeraldPark for overflow,.... but I can't recall the details of that since EmeraldPark will already be squeezed for parking for their residents (no visitor parking provided), office floor, and their 2 storey commercial floors,.... especially Metro.
The community centre will be interesting,... because it won't be like a city community centre,.. and it won't be like a church gym,... it'll be operated by the church but open to everyone in the community. Last year, the church sent out questionaire to the community asking what services and facilities they would like to see at this new community centre.
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sunnyraytoronto
Senior Member
Dude, even a bungalow property severance that does NOT comply with all the rules will get approved,... it just takes longer with all the variances. In our area, a couple of times each year, we'll get a letter from the city with regards to this or that neighbour who has applied for a variance,... because they want to split their lot and the new house would violate a building code,... like front door too high, building take up too many percentage of the lot, height limit, etc,.... then it goes through the process,... and as long as there isn't too many strong opposition to it or they give up some concessions,... it usually gets approved.
Because the city owned the laneway,... Bazis couldn't just OMB EmeraldPark and get whatever height and density they desired,.... as has been done for other developers in NYCC,... a-la GibsonSquare and Tridel HullmarkCentre. Bazis had to deal and negotiate with the city,.... OMB was not an option. OMB could override city planning on height, density, zoning, etc,... but OMB could NOT force the city to sell the city owned laneway to Bazis for EmeraldPark.
Last time I checked,... Bazis EmeraldPark is still at 42 & 32 storey,... not their originally envisioned 56 & 45 storey in their original renderings nor even their revised 49 & 40 storey.
Actually, I'm still a bit surprised that the city allowed Bazis EmeraldPark at 42 & 32 storey,... since there are 2 storey houses directly across Poyntz Ave from EmeraldPark,.... City Planning department has always made a big fuss about "transition",... where they don't want high buildings right beside single residential houses,... they want mid-height building or even townhouses to act as a height-density buffer between high buildings and single residential houses. Between EmeraldPark and those 2 storey single residential houses on the south side of Poyntz,... there is no such transition buffer.
UD2
Active Member
people here are too hard on Bazis.
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vz64
Active Member
I think it has to do with their country of origin and not so convincing implementation of Crystal Blue... I am optimist and hope that Emerald Park will turn well. The Astana Emerald project looks great and it is in their best interest to make sure EP meets high expectations.
You shouldn't be. These houses directly across Poyntz are part of the North York Centre Secondary Plan development area, so it is a matter of time before they are replaced with a midrise residential or something similar.
You shouldn't be. These houses directly across Poyntz are part of the North York Centre Secondary Plan development area, so it is a matter of time before they are replaced with a midrise residential or something similar.
sunnyraytoronto
Senior Member
And what exactly would my country of origin be???
Yes, vz64,... you're a great optimist,... until it comes to Councillor John Filion. ;P Maybe you should run against councillor John Filion in the next election and see how that goes.
If Bazis were to build 3 office towers like their 3 Emerald Towers in Astana at EmeraldPark,... I'd be estatic! vz64, what's your opinion on how closely the The Emerald Towers in Astana resemble their original renderings?
vz64, can you produce link and references with regards to the those houses on the south side of Poyntz across from EmeraldPark being part of the North York Secondary Plans?
The city zoning for the south side is Poyntz across from EmeraldPark hasn't changed, yet,... its still for single residential units. The city is considering changing the zoning (to commercial / offices) there and for the properties within about 100-150m west of Yonge between Poyntz and Franklin,.... but the city is looking at more of a 10 year time line,... translation: 10 city years,... is really closer to 20 human years! ;P
You guys know Bazis history of,... not building CrystalBlu remotely close to its original renderings and delivering units that are subpar compared to what was originally promised to their buyers, marketing low prices only to bait and switch prices an hour before sales office opens at 1 BloorEast, not being able to complete 1BloorEast, the constant delays with EmeraldPark (hows that original closing date of December 2011 coming along? Look across the street, Tridel HullmarkCentre south tower is almost finished and EmeraldPark is just getting to ground level,.... a couple of years ago they were both selling units at the same time,... they were even placing up boardings at the same time),.... but yet, you still think EmeraldPark will be the best thing since sliced bread,... Please, just lower your expectations,... so you won't be as disappointed later.