Toronto David Crombie Park Revitalization | ?m | ?s | City of Toronto

The whole thing has been overdesigned for a reason - the grubby little twerp DC wants to spend as much as possible from the development fund. He doesn't care one iota for the residents of the neighbourhood, current or future (2000+ new units in the next 5 years). He is loving the opportunity to stomp around on the public dime, makes him feel important. People like DC should be banned from any sort of public role, toxic and self-serving all the way.
What on earth are you talking about? The park is certainly named after former mayor David Crombie (because he was instrumental in the design of the areas around The Esplanade in the late 1970s when he was Mayor. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Crombie ). He now lives in the neighbourhood and is certainly interested in how the park will be upgraded but to say that " He is loving the opportunity to stomp around on the public dime.." is frankly stupid, ill-informed and 100% wrong.
 
Oh goody another "stakeholder" song and dance, love to see the "preferred" plan and most especially who "preferred" it and when. Hint - it weren't no bleedin stakeholders. Why do these clowns persist in this ridiculous song and dance, DC knows what he wants just give him the millions and let him get on with it, no one is buying this nonsense. This whole redesign is nowt but an ego trip by this self-serving menance to the people. SOOOOOO looking forward to the city tearing down mature trees and grinding up lovely green grass so some Montreal design firm can cram their overpriced prententiousness down our throats - YET AGAIN*


*yes that was sarcasm for those not quite sure.
 
What on earth are you talking about? The park is certainly named after former mayor David Crombie (because he was instrumental in the design of the areas around The Esplanade in the late 1970s when he was Mayor. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Crombie ). He now lives in the neighbourhood and is certainly interested in how the park will be upgraded but to say that " He is loving the opportunity to stomp around on the public dime.." is frankly stupid, ill-informed and 100% wrong.
ACTUALLY, FACTUALLY - the meeting I attended was held up because the above named was otherwise engaged, not the indifferent observer you refer to.
 
Oh goody another "stakeholder" song and dance, love to see the "preferred" plan and most especially who "preferred" it and when. Hint - it weren't no bleedin stakeholders. Why do these clowns persist in this ridiculous song and dance, DC knows what he wants just give him the millions and let him get on with it, no one is buying this nonsense. This whole redesign is nowt but an ego trip by this self-serving menance to the people. SOOOOOO looking forward to the city tearing down mature trees and grinding up lovely green grass so some Montreal design firm can cram their overpriced prententiousness down our throats - YET AGAIN*


*yes that was sarcasm for those not quite sure.

Perhaps you could dial it back a bit, if you wish to have your thoughts given serious consideration.

You are clearly posting angry, and it comes off badly.

FWIW, I haven't been overly excited by what I've seen of the revitalization proposals for Crombie Park.

I too greatly value healthy, mature trees and indeed, having looked at the trees in this area, I think they did slant their evaluation of some in order to justify removals. (that doesn't mean an arborist lied, it does mean you can characterize a tree as 'fair' and showing stress and justify keeping it, because it looks ok and probably has another 10-15 years of life; or you can look at the same tree and justify its removal by arguing its health isn't that great, and it'll probably be dead in 10 years anyway.)

That said........

David Crombie is a widely respected person, both as a former Mayor and as someone who has chaired commissions and been a champion for many great causes. He is broadly well liked across the political spectrum and partisan divides and is seen to be reasonable and moderate.

You may or may not be correct in your assessment of his level of influence on this process; but either way, he deserves to be spoken of respectfully and not derisively.

I have taken part in this process and expressed my concerns on the proposals brought forward in the last round; but I did so online and through phone calls and so have not taken notice of the extent of Mr. Crombie's involvement.

Regardless, he was worthy of the honour of having his name on this park space. One might hope, if one has the honour of having one's name placed on a building or public space, that such a person would take an
ongoing interest in its upkeep.

That's hardly an indicator of an outsized ego, or a disinterest in public sentiment.

Critique the man's stated position on, or influence in any proposals here, should the evidence merit it; but don't subvert your own cause by making that an attack on the person, instead of the idea..
 
ACTUALLY, FACTUALLY - the meeting I attended was held up because the above named was otherwise engaged, not the indifferent observer you refer to.
I certainly did not say he was in 'indifferent observer". He lives in our neighbourhood, the park is named after him and he is (as @Northern Light says ) 'broadly well liked across the political spectrum and partisan divides and is seen to be reasonable and moderate". If I had the honour of having a park named after me I would, I think, retain an interest in it and if a consultative meeting was delayed so that a man in his mid-80s whose name graces the Park could be present I think that was simply 'good manners'.

I agree with others that the designs I have seen so far do not really excite me and certainly suggest that if you are actually interested in having your opinion taken seriously "Perhaps you could dial it back a bit, if you wish to have your thoughts given serious consideration. You are clearly posting angry, and it comes off badly. "
 
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yeah I'm angry - so what? Is being angry uncanadian? I think people should honestly express their anger as opposed to considering it unseemly or undemocratic. And by the way considering how undemocratic this city is becoming, with the widening gulf between haves and have nots y'all better get used to anger. Locals have noted the contempt from city hall about the overdevelopment in this area and the traffic that results from it. Those locals have been very respectful and circumspect with their criticism - where has that got them? Get used to the anger my friend it's the way of the future.


Perhaps you could dial it back a bit, if you wish to have your thoughts given serious consideration.

You are clearly posting angry, and it comes off badly.

FWIW, I haven't been overly excited by what I've seen of the revitalization proposals for Crombie Park.

I too greatly value healthy, mature trees and indeed, having looked at the trees in this area, I think they did slant their evaluation of some in order to justify removals. (that doesn't mean an arborist lied, it does mean you can characterize a tree as 'fair' and showing stress and justify keeping it, because it looks ok and probably has another 10-15 years of life; or you can look at the same tree and justify its removal by arguing its health isn't that great, and it'll probably be dead in 10 years anyway.)

That said........

David Crombie is a widely respected person, both as a former Mayor and as someone who has chaired commissions and been a champion for many great causes. He is broadly well liked across the political spectrum and partisan divides and is seen to be reasonable and moderate.

You may or may not be correct in your assessment of his level of influence on this process; but either way, he deserves to be spoken of respectfully and not derisively.

I have taken part in this process and expressed my concerns on the proposals brought forward in the last round; but I did so online and through phone calls and so have not taken notice of the extent of Mr. Crombie's involvement.

Regardless, he was worthy of the honour of having his name on this park space. One might hope, if one has the honour of having one's name placed on a building or public space, that such a person would take an
ongoing interest in its upkeep.

That's hardly an indicator of an outsized ego, or a disinterest in public sentiment.

Critique the man's stated position on, or influence in any proposals here, should the evidence merit it; but don't subvert your own cause by making that an attack on the person, instead of the idea..
 
yeah I'm angry - so what? Is being angry uncanadian? I think people should honestly express their anger as opposed to considering it unseemly or undemocratic. And by the way considering how undemocratic this city is becoming, with the widening gulf between haves and have nots y'all better get used to anger. Locals have noted the contempt from city hall about the overdevelopment in this area and the traffic that results from it. Those locals have been very respectful and circumspect with their criticism - where has that got them? Get used to the anger my friend it's the way of the future.

You may present as you wish; however, you're not addressing the Mayor, or the Councillor or Mr. Crombie here. You're addressing strangers who have done nothing to you. Yelling at us may not hurt you much, but it certainly won't get you anything either.

Being persuasive, however, might.

At the very least, it may change some votes in a future election; but it may get you more, some people here can affect some change, some of the time. Yelling at them won't get you their ear.

***

May I further suggest to you than the City has opposed the size/scale of many of the developments in the St. Lawrence area to which you object. But was either overruled by the OMB or its brief successor; or made reluctant concessions fearing worse, if they didn't.

Perhaps your anger would be better directed on this issue at the provincial level of government which controls the OMB.............

Likewise, income inequality is a very real issue, and one which will garner you a sympathetic ear in this forum.

It is also a Federal/Provincial jurisdictional issue.

The City does have some tools at its disposal to take the edge off; but they are comparatively limited.

The City has no authority to tax income or wealth; nor does it have the mandate, or the revenues to directly redistribute it.

The most it can do is build a modest amount of housing, improve conditions at some of the housing it controls; raise property taxes, and use those revenues to both improve services and reduce or eliminate user fees for things like recreation, and the TTC.

Certainly the City could do better, the Mayor and council could be more courageous and ambitious; but the most audacious plans you could imagine (at the municipal level) will not change the minimum wage, or social assistance rates, they will not lower income tax on the poor, nor extend healthcare coverage to areas like drugs and dental.

So again, if this is a pressing concern of yours, you might direct your anger more at the Federal and Provincial governments than the City.
 
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I normally express agreement with or thanks for a post by simply clicking the 'Like' button, but I feel it's worth underlining here my appreciation for the well thought out and very reasonable responses to some rather extreme posts. Thanks for the cool heads — you all make UT worth clicking on!

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Preferred concept plan presentation from Sept 2019 - one more iteration to final design:


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AoD
 
It's OK. Nothing really stands out for me. Block 5 in particular seems very meh. I'm probably crazy to suggest pedestrian bridges to connect them all together (except for maybe Block 1).
 
It's OK. Nothing really stands out for me. Block 5 in particular seems very meh. I'm probably crazy to suggest pedestrian bridges to connect them all together (except for maybe Block 1).
I agree, you are crazy :-> pedestrian bridges are useful on occasion but David Crombie is divided by pretty small local (residential) roads like George, Frederick and Princess. (Plus Lower Sherbourne and Lower Jarvis). The local roads are quite safe to cross without a bridge and do you really want bridges and access ramps to cross the two larger ones. (Not everyone can manage stairs so you need ramps to comply with AODA.) MAYBE an overhead connection of some sort from the St Lawrence Market 'terrace" to the new section where the tent is now but .....
 
I wasn't expect to be impressed given the distinctively "neighbourhood park" approach - but Block 1 disappoints - it felt like going through the motions; no attempt to think bigger and reach out to the north and tie the market in. Waste of opportunity even.

AoD
 
To me, Block 4 was the only existing one desperately in need of a total re-think.

I'm not sure they got it right.

The rest of what's there now, is frankly better as is than what's proposed; except for some state-of-good-repair work, a refresh on aged/cracked paving, or old play equipment along with some re-sodding.

The first block as @AlvinofDiaspar noted just inspired a big shrug. It doesn't feel like the start or finish of a linear park of significance; nor does it seem to relate to, reference, or otherwise connect with SLM to the north.

In the end, the plan is hardly a disaster; but it does seem a bit of a waste of time and money.

I think they really would have been better off investing in modest improvements and state-of-good repair where needed; and investing more time and money; with a different firm; putting their energy into blocks 1 and 4.
 
I wasn't expect to be impressed given the distinctively "neighbourhood park" approach - but Block 1 disappoints - it felt like going through the motions; no attempt to think bigger and reach out to the north and tie the market in. Waste of opportunity even.

AoD
Though I agree it could be better (and may be in the final version) they do intend to link Block 1 to Market Street (ideally fully pedestrianised) and then to Market Lane Park (to be fixed up once the new North Market is built) and then to St James Park. The rear of the South Market is loading docks and it is hard to see what one can do there.
 

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