sixrings
Senior Member
This is my major intersection. I vote shut it down. Although my neighbours would probably vote differently.
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thettctransitfanatic
Senior Member
Damn your neighbours...
Allandale25
Senior Member
Matlow's latest piece on this: https://joshmatlow.ca/josh-in-the-w...st-street-for-7-months-make-your-voice-heard/
I realize he wants alternatives but are there really any good ones? Isn't there a risk this could delay the opening?
raptor
Senior Member
sometimes I question the need to ask the public's input on things. This is one of those instances.
thettctransitfanatic
Senior Member
Yes, I would say in this instance, the public IS NOT right.
WislaHD
Superstar
I think what we've done in Ontario over the past 5ish decades is a lovely experiment.
However, I'm beginning to believe that someone should pursue a doctoral thesis evaluating the costs and benefits of public input on major infrastructure projects.
crs1026
Superstar
The answer to this may be a no brainer, but the need for government to hold consultation should never be waived. Can’t complain about process when, say, a city council is reorganized, and not complain about it here. This holding consultations after the decision is reached, or goint through the motions, is so Metrolinx. It needs to blow up in their face, again and again, until they learn some lessons.
Matlow asks a reasonable question : what is the real impact on the completion of the project? If any other stations are falling behind, the impact may be manageable..... although I suspect there is money at stake too. There are likely downstream tasks that will be impacted. How much float does this use up?
The question I would add is - what level of traffic congestion will there be in each scenario, and for how long? I suspect the extended option is worse, since Bathurst will probably be so pinched, and for a longer period.
Lastly, ML says the closure will be x months, Who believes them? What happens if they blow by the end date?
In the end, the closure may be the better option.... but people should be able to ask these questions, and somebody should be on the hook to provide answers, before this becomes a sure thing.
- Paul
Matlow asks a reasonable question : what is the real impact on the completion of the project? If any other stations are falling behind, the impact may be manageable..... although I suspect there is money at stake too. There are likely downstream tasks that will be impacted. How much float does this use up?
The question I would add is - what level of traffic congestion will there be in each scenario, and for how long? I suspect the extended option is worse, since Bathurst will probably be so pinched, and for a longer period.
Lastly, ML says the closure will be x months, Who believes them? What happens if they blow by the end date?
In the end, the closure may be the better option.... but people should be able to ask these questions, and somebody should be on the hook to provide answers, before this becomes a sure thing.
- Paul
thettctransitfanatic
Senior Member
I agree 100% over this. The public's ideas in general when it comes to ANY infastrucature project suck. For example, Park Lawn GO. That would have been built, if it weren't for the public and Metrolinx fighting over it.
crs1026
Superstar
^The other thing to watch when they hold the public consultation: does ML get up and announce something along the lines of - “Because this is a P3 project, the vendor has the contractual right to plan the work, and select the most expeditious method. If we override the vendor’s choice of method, we incurr penalties”.
My prime objection to P3 in Ontario has always been, it firewalls accountability for decisions away from government and ML.
The pols will all wring their hands and claim it’s not their decision. It is their decision, lets’s watch how much backbone they may have, or not.
- Paul
My prime objection to P3 in Ontario has always been, it firewalls accountability for decisions away from government and ML.
The pols will all wring their hands and claim it’s not their decision. It is their decision, lets’s watch how much backbone they may have, or not.
- Paul
Steve X
Senior Member
The public would want a subway station on their major intersection but not have any lane closure or construction effects that affect businesses nearby and protest any major development that occurs because of that subway station is built.
ML keep changing their minds too on important decisions which does cost delays. The contract must have some sort of override abilities and requirements. ML could change things if it doesn't delay the project and are willing to pay for it. The consortium don't get to do absolutely everything they want. There are things ML specially requested or restrictions imposed.
ML keep changing their minds too on important decisions which does cost delays. The contract must have some sort of override abilities and requirements. ML could change things if it doesn't delay the project and are willing to pay for it. The consortium don't get to do absolutely everything they want. There are things ML specially requested or restrictions imposed.
smallspy
Senior Member
That's funny. I go through that intersection once or twice each day without having to detour. Am I doing it wrong?
Dan
WislaHD
Superstar
Well, it is a giant traffic jam, and for the last little while, turns haven't been allowed. If you are going directly through, you just have to brave the lane restrictions and traffic.
People who turn north on Bayview cut onto Bruce Park to by-pass the intersection via Roehampton. People who turn south on Bayview cut onto Soudan. Many people going straight through the intersection east-west also use Soudan-Parkhurst to reach Laird.
As a local resident, I am definitely not a fan of cars using these residential streets as a by-pass. They are usually the impatient types, and have no problem flooring it down Bruce Park, for instance, which is on a hill (so sight lines limited) and doesn't have sidewalks on one-side of the road so often has dog walkers or moms with strollers on the street. (There is a nearby paediatrician office)
thettctransitfanatic
Senior Member
Though, it may not be long before the automobiles use residental streets, because Daddy Metrolinx wants to shut down the intercestion still, right ????? Or did they change that.
crs1026
Superstar
I will confess that having been caught in miserable traffic up that way a few times, I now totally disregard the turn prohibitions and turn where I can, taking care to look around for police (there never are any, they stay away from the congestion, and the ones on construction duty on Eglinton never get out of their cruisers anyway). It's hard to say this is "unsafe", since the no-turns are mostly arbitrary restrictions for the locals' benefit, and are not an "engineered" traffic design. One never knows what one can't do until you get there, and it's infuriating to plan a route and then discover it's not usable somehow.
I would like to say I'm driving carefully, but after being stuck going nowhere for 15 minutes I have certainly felt the urge to floor it when I get some clear space in front of the car. Sorry, pure human nature.
I expect Bathurst will be similar. The solution is to get the construction done as quickly as possible, and get things back to normal. There is no silver bullet.
- Paul
nfitz
Superstar
Rush-hour(s) in Toronto always seems to be a giant traffic jam to me, especially the further you are from downtown (if you stay away from the Gardiner!) ... I can't say I've made the mistake of trying to drive down Bayview from 401 in rush hour since the early 1990s (Leslie or Don Mills Road is generally better) ...
... but looking right now in rush hour at 4:40 pm ... traffic in Google maps looks not horrific on Bayview at Eglinton - some backup sure ... but similar if not worse at Lawrence (northbound) and definitely worse at York Mills. Southbound looks good. Sure looks better than the congestion on Highway 7 near Pine Valley or Major Mack at Jane or Dufferin and Steeles or Bloor at Royal York ...