Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[robmausser]

http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2017/ex/bgrd/backgroundfile-109250.pdf

Notice how none of the grade separations involve raising or lowering the roadway?

 

[aquateam]

So you're basing it on anecdotal evidence from a newspaper article, rather than any technical documentation?

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

I can't tell if this is sarcasm or if you are seriously incredulous that a signalling system system can do what it is designed to do, to the point that nothing other than commercially protected excerpts of code and scans of wiring diagrams will convince you.

• Do you have some kind of insider knowledge that puts you in a better informed position than the experts consulted by professional journalists at Canada's highest circulation newspaper?
• Is there some reason that trains would be unable to close their own doors automatically, a function performed safely and without human intervention by literally every elevator and commercial building in the world?
• Is there a reason that Andy Byford, the outgoing CEO of the TTC who no longer has any stake in internal TTC politics, would be part of a conspiracy to hide this?

Until you are able to answer those basic questions, maybe you shouldn't challenge the reference that you asked for.

Just to recap:

Level of evidence needed by other people:
Something akin to what you would expect in an air crash investigation

Level of evidence needed by Dan:
Just a vague sentiment that the reference is wrong, without any articulation of why that could be the case.

Here is your goddamned reference, unless internally commissioned documentation isn't acceptable and I need to hack into TTC archives.

Automatic Train Operation (ATO) Functions
The ATO functions include speed regulation, programmed station stopping, door control,
performance level regulation, and other functions otherwise assigned to the train operator.

Headway/Capacity Requirement
The ATC project is to deliver a capability for a “step change” increase in passenger carrying
capacity on the line through Automatic Train Operation (ATO) and the use of a modern,
service-proven, moving block, train control solution supporting safe, short-headway
operations.

The current ATC System Architecture to deliver these objectives includes a primary ATC
System, utilizing Communications-Based Train Control (CBTC) technology to deliver
Automatic Train Protection (ATP), Automatic Train Operation (ATO) and Automatic Train
Supervision (ATS) functions, and a secondary train control systems comprised of secondary
train detection systems (track circuits); and secondary train protection systems (wayside
signals, train stops, and an independent speed control system (SCS).

 

[Amare]

Stupid.

Must we half-ass everything in this city?

Since we have a leader who is not a visionary at all, and looks to the cheapest method to implement anything in this city I guess the unfortunate answer is yes.

Now we'll have to deal with the "this is going to be another St.Clair line style streetcar" quotes and NIMBYs banging on the door of City Hall coming out against it. I wouldnt be surprised to see this cancelled outright the minute Doug Ford were elected if that happens.

 

[WislaHD]

Now we'll have to deal with the "this is going to be another St.Clair line style streetcar" quotes and NIMBYs banging on the door of City Hall coming out against it. I wouldnt be surprised to see this cancelled outright the minute Doug Ford were elected if that happens.

Such is the way of transit planning in this city.

Canceling may not be the worst thing in the world, we would get an opportunity to do it right the 3rd time around.

 

[aquateam]

http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2017/ex/bgrd/backgroundfile-109250.pdf

Notice how none of the grade separations involve raising or lowering the roadway?

I notice how they only published some of the online responses, not all of them (like I've seen them publish all responses in appendices in other documents.) I'm sure some urbantoronto users probably savaged the staff and the process in the online survey so they deliberately only included the dumbest/contradictory responses in order to minimize any legitimate criticism:

• There is not enough room to expand the right-of-way to include all existing traffic lanes and the LRT;

This is objectively false.

• The Eglinton West corridor is similar to the St. Clair corridor;

The wide, windswept corridor to the airport originally reserved for a highway is definitely not similar to the commercially lined strip of Corso Italia.

• Study the addition of protected cycle lanes along Eglinton Avenue West;

These already exist.

• Implement traffic calming measures and a traffic redirection strategy at intersections such as Martin Grove Road and Eglinton Avenue West along with the implementation of the LRT to ensure traffic issues are solved;

Adding speed bumps and roundabouts to major arteries will definitely not "solve" traffic issues.

• The introduction of the LRT will require more parking facilities.

I think this was probably thrown in for good measure.

 

[W. K. Lis]

If Richview Expressway were to have been built, the over and underpasses would be rubber-stamped. But for the Eglinton West LRT, sorry can't afford it.

Just put in the over and underpasses that would have been used for the expressway and use them for the LRT instead.

 

[sixrings]

Such is the way of transit planning in this city.

Canceling may not be the worst thing in the world, we would get an opportunity to do it right the 3rd time around.

How long does one need to wait for that dream? Brampton cancelled their project and now nothing is being built. Personally I don't want to take that risk...

Also I took the bus home tonight and it was the worst experience. The bus was weaving in and out of traffic randomly breaking and often accelerating to fast. I'm healthy and in my thirties yet almost fell over twice. I officially hate the bus and desire rails.

 

[Juan_Lennon416]

Since we have a leader who is not a visionary at all, and looks to the cheapest method to implement anything in this city.

Has been the attitude during the Mayor Miller years and then continued under Mayor Ford

 

[W. K. Lis]

Has been the attitude during the Mayor Miller years and then continued under Mayor Ford

Transit City came out of Mayor Miller, but cancelled by Mayor Ford.

Even had the St. Clair streetcar extended to Jane Street.

 

[sixrings]

I have get from eglinton west to Runnymede and annette for work. I run down to work but would consider the st clair street car home. Why not the duppont bus? Because it gets stuck in traffic. Why not the subway? I prefer to be above ground. St. Clair has more stops than a lrt but moves at a decent speed with a window. I recognize there is a Runnymede bus that goes to keele but I prefer as few transfers as possible. As a result I take my chances on dupont in an uncomfortable bus

Transit City came out of Mayor Miller, but cancelled by Mayor Ford.

Even had the St. Clair streetcar extended to Jane Street.

 

[MisterF]

They aren't as entrenched though. Toronto already had 90% of its current subway network when the SRT was built. Vancouver built theirs from scratch so there were no subway drivers worried about losing their jobs. Plus, they seem to accept private operation/maintenance of their lines (e.g. Canada line.)

What evidence do you have that they're more entrenched in Toronto? Toronto had no SRT drivers to worry about losing their jobs when the SRT was built either.

TTC management seems to be an old boy's club that has been resisting any kind of modernization for decades. Blaming unions is popular these days but I don't think it's all that accurate.

 

[WislaHD]

How long does one need to wait for that dream? Brampton cancelled their project and now nothing is being built. Personally I don't want to take that risk...

Then don't vote for a Ford. I'd rather something get built than nothing too. Even a median LRT with no grade separation is an upgrade over nothing (just forseeably shortsighted).

But if nothing gets built next election cycle, then the following election cycle (2022-26 Toronto City Council) might decide to do it correctly.

Also I took the bus home tonight and it was the worst experience. The bus was weaving in and out of traffic randomly breaking and often accelerating to fast. I'm healthy and in my thirties yet almost fell over twice. I officially hate the bus and desire rails.

But imagine how smooth it would be as a BRT.

 

[Rainforest]

Just put in the over and underpasses that would have been used for the expressway and use them for the LRT instead.

Let's pretend they are for the highway, then re-purpose them

 

[Rainforest]

I have no issue with buses, have been riding them for my whole life. Pretty positive about BRT.

But in this particular case, Eglinton West BRT would create a permanent linear transfer at Mt Dennis, and that's not desirable.

So, I'd rather see the light rail extended, even with the cheaper design the city appears to prefer.

The cheap choice will have some negative impact on other potential light rail corridors, making it harder to sell LRT to the public. I guess, life isn't perfect after all.

 

[WislaHD]

I do feel like we are going to have a disconnect between transit and built form though.

Build St Clair style transit corridor with fewer, wider stops, yet facing suburban residential built-form to the south that quite literally, turns it's back against Eglinton, and then the empty Richview corridor to the north that is going to be a pain to assemble into developable lots, with semi-expressway travel patterns throughout.

How do we reconcile these differences? What can we do to facilitate urban change on a corridor that really was not envisioned to look like this. This to me, seems like the toughest sell for street LRTs yet. Eglinton East, Finch West and Sheppard East are all corridors conductive to urban intensification and development as soon as the LRT is built. Here, only the north side between Royal York and Scarlett that immediately seems developable into an urban environment.