Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[crs1026]

Single point are traditionally easier to install and maintain in city pavement, more reliable in the sense that there is only one place that foreign material can jam the points, but less reliable in the sense that it's easier for the wheels to pick the switch. I wonder whether improvements in street construction (@W.K.Lis's photos contrast a very modern double point trackbed, versus old-school single point in ashphalt) makes double point more practical for street cars too..... not that TTC would give up its old school ways without a fight.

The premise of LRT is operating like subway: shut the doors, accelerate, go full speed to the next station, brake, open the doors, repeat.

Anything that disrupts that cadence - track switches, u-turn lanes, red traffic lights - is a recipe for slower service and a 'streetcar mentality'.

On Crosstown, track switches ought to be a non-issue - there are fewer of them, and dual point on a segregated row should be navigable without a stop. (Will Crosstown have traffic control, like the subway? If so, the operator will comply with a signal, versus worrying about the switch points per se)

More stops won't help, but the biggest risk is that traffic lights will force operators to coast or stop between stops. Building in U-turn lanes, as is being proposed for Eglinton West, actually increases the number of intermediate potential stopping points. Inadequate U=turn merge lanes could leave autos lingering on the tracks until everything ahead has moved on. If this is allowed to become the norm, 'coasting' habits will form and schedules will be padded.

I hope the line is managed from the subway control organization - and not as a surface line.

- Paul

 

[W. K. Lis]

For the streetcar network, the problem is funding shortages for the TTC. With the Mayor asking for a reduction in TTC funding (2% for 2016), don't expect to see much improvement in streetcar speeds. The cuts have to come from somewhere, so cut on track switch improvements.

See link.

 

[smallspy]

I've not seen streetcars stopping at every switch in Toronto. Where are you seeing this? Nor do I see them slowing down at most intersections - I've seen many streetcars ripping through intersections above the speed limit late at night.

Yes, they slow down at a switch; they don't stop.

There have been rules in place for about 10 years that require every operator to stop at every facing-point switch. And it's been my experience that the vast majority of the operators abide by this, seeing as how their jobs are at stake.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[nfitz]

Stop? Even running east on Queen East to Connaught, they only slow going past the switches between Greenwood and Connaught for the yard, before coming to a stop at the stop Connaught itself. I don't see full stops.

And I certainly don't see any slowing down at most intersections!

 

[TransitBart]

We are all going to have to have some faith that the leadership at the TTC will start to put this right. Criticizing them is pointless. The money comes from the city. It is up to us to get on top of our city councillors and agitate for improvement. They are dolling out the funds. And they respond to voter and citizen feedback. The TTC managment is bound to live with the envelope it is granted.

The TTC knows how to do its job. The switches at Leslie Barns are all double throw. Great.

If we were all paying attention, at Greenwood Yard, Justin Trudeau doled out over $800M in transit maintenance funding about eight weeks ago. So one of these days, the citizens of Toronto need to see what repair work has become funded and from where. Whether it's 60 more Flexities, or more track work, or ATO/ATC on the subway, these projects are needed to make it all work better.

I see Brad Ross is in the habit of answering public questions. How about someone tweet him and ask when we are going to see additional maintenance scheduled?

Here was Steve Munro's report on the TTC track repair schedule earlier this spring. In the link is a 5 year track plan for the legacy streetcar network. Looking at the picture from W. K. Lis above, it is a miracle that there are not more derailments daily.

https://stevemunro.ca/2016/02/26/ttc-streetcar-track-plans-2016-2020/

 

[Amare]

I've not seen streetcars stopping at every switch in Toronto. Where are you seeing this? Nor do I see them slowing down at most intersections - I've seen many streetcars ripping through intersections above the speed limit late at night.

Yes, they slow down at a switch; they don't stop.

Take a ride on the 501 and you'll see exactly what I mean. Streetcars are required (mandated by the TTC) to stop at every switch and then proceed. This is part of the reason streetcars crawl through the King-Queen-King-Roncesvalles intersection.

Additionally at ROW intersections you'll frequently see streetcars speeding throughout the actual ROW until they get to an intersection. Once they get to an intersection they will slow down dramatically and proceed to crawl through the intersection.

To be perfectly honest you dont even have to take a ride on a streetcar to see all this. Stand outside an intersection such as College and Spadina and you'll see all this at play even with no one boarding or exiting the streetcar.

 

[nfitz]

Take a ride on the 501 and you'll see exactly what I mean. Streetcars are required (mandated by the TTC) to stop at every switch and then proceed. This is part of the reason streetcars crawl through the King-Queen-King-Roncesvalles intersection.

Additionally at ROW intersections you'll frequently see streetcars speeding throughout the actual ROW until they get to an intersection. Once they get to an intersection they will slow down dramatically and proceed to crawl through the intersection.

To be perfectly honest you dont even have to take a ride on a streetcar to see all this. Stand outside an intersection such as College and Spadina and you'll see all this at play even with no one boarding or exiting the streetcar.

I normally ride at least 4 streetcars a day. I see slowing at switches sure - but stopping? Though most are at stops, so they stop anways, but take my example above at Connaught - which being right in front of the yard, would I think have the most compliance.

And though I certainly see slowing at switches, I've never seen slowing at intersections. Take Queen East and Greenwood for example - they'll rip right through there are speed if the lights are green, and there's no one at the stop.

I've missed far too many streetcars at intersections, that I wouldn't have missed, if they slowed, let alone stopped!

 

[smably]

I normally ride at least 4 streetcars a day. I see slowing at switches sure - but stopping? Though most are at stops, so they stop anways, but take my example above at Connaught - which being right in front of the yard, would I think have the most compliance.

I thought it was a well known fact that streetcar drivers are required to stop and proceed at every switch? Every time I pass Dundas and College eastbound, stop and proceed. Queen and King westbound, same thing. At intersections where the switch is far away from the cross street, drivers will either stop at the switch to let passengers board, or stop at the switch and proceed to the stop line. I very rarely, if ever, see this policy violated. Don't know what to say about Connaught, but that sure isn't representative of my experience.

 

[Steve X]

It really depends on location, the time of the day and the driver. On Spadina, they'll usually stop but in the outskirts of the system, some drivers slowly roll through. Especially at night. It's a well know fact that they should fully stop, just like cars at a stop sign. BUT hey, look how many people fully stop at a stop sign? Even with the Dundas westbound switch approaching Victoria (City TV building) most driver slowly roll through as traffic never stops there, just the streetcars are suppose to.

Unless you ride every piece of the system frequently at all hours, I wouldn't make a statement claiming they stop every single time. The rule is even more likely to be violated overnight. (I not claiming they do as I don't ride night cars that often). In the day time, there are more supervisors out, so rule adhesiveness is much higher.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

That's interesting. I don't always ride streetcars, but I can say for certain I saw that violated a few times last week -- I commented to a friend that the A's make a ton of noise and rumble because they were speeding through a particular switch.

I'll definitely be looking out for violations next time.

 

[Napoleon]

How do double point switches impact operations?

I'm actually wondering what, for example, Amsterdam does. Do they have single or double point switches? They're the other city I think of that has lots of complicated and intersecting streetcar routes. There drivers definitely are not stopping at each switch.

The premise of LRT is operating like subway: shut the doors, accelerate, go full speed to the next station, brake, open the doors, repeat.

Anything that disrupts that cadence - track switches, u-turn lanes, red traffic lights - is a recipe for slower service and a 'streetcar mentality'.

On Crosstown, track switches ought to be a non-issue - there are fewer of them, and dual point on a segregated row should be navigable without a stop. (Will Crosstown have traffic control, like the subway? If so, the operator will comply with a signal, versus worrying about the switch points per se)

Agreed that this is essential that they operate the line properly. The combination of the TTC and the city have proven streetcar ROW's do nothing to speed streetcar speeds without sensible TSP and stop spacing. I can always feel my blood pressure rising every time I ride Spadina. Stops that are barely 100 meters apart, hitting every red light, a left turn arrow for 3 single occupant cars getting priority, and then stopping at every intersection even when the light is green because they can't build switches that are reliable.

 

[crs1026]

I'm actually wondering what, for example, Amsterdam does. Do they have single or double point switches? They're the other city I think of that has lots of complicated and intersecting streetcar routes. There drivers definitely are not stopping at each switch.

If you want some light reading....

http://www.modernstreetcar.org/pdf/circulator_trackway_report_final_3_30_07.pdf

http://www.apta.com/resources/standards/Documents/APTA-RT-ST-GL-001-13.pdf

EDIT: And http://onlinepubs.trb.org/onlinepubs/tcrp/tcrp_rpt_155.pdf

- Paul

 

[someMidTowner]

East extraction shaft from this afternoon:

 

[Tulse]

How long front-to-back is the front face of a TBM? The shaft seems rather narrow east-west.

 

[cplchanb]

How long front-to-back is the front face of a TBM? The shaft seems rather narrow east-west.

The machine comes in sections so i would imagine they will dismantle each section at a time as it emerges from the tunnel