Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[W. K. Lis]

Open House on August 25th

I have been to the Eglinton Crosstown LRT open house held today on August 25, 2008 at the Humber Valley United Church, 76 Anglesey Blvd. These are my suggestions and comments that I e-mailed to them:

1. Is it correct that a secondary exit will be required for all underground stations on the Eglinton Crosstown LRT? How long will the stations and stops be, in comparison with existing subway stations and streetcar platform stops? If secondary exits will have to included, able how far from the main exits would they be?
   
   The reason for those questions will help me to visualize the distance between stations. Also, it will help me to see if the locations of secondary and main stations will actually reduce distances between stations or not.
   
   
2. In Etobicoke, I think that it would be better for the LRT to run on the NORTH SIDE of Eglinton Avenue West. It would be cheaper, as the roadway would not have to be widened, just place the LRT on the grass on the north side. It could be more scenic if the LRV's could then run through the woodlots.
   
   If unable to move the driveways, and you have to use the center of the roadway, PLEASE use grass like they have in some European cities along with tree groves. And use wider a wider medium if you have to go that way.
   
   At Islington and Eglinton, the roadway goes into a depression. Consider using a bridge to cross Islington at this point.
   
   
3. At Emmett Avenue, there is plans for a stop. I am assuming that the stop sign currently there will be replaced with traffic lights. The stop would not be used by the Scarlett Woods Gold Course, since the stop at Jane and Eglinton would more likely be used. That leaves the sports field, which is not used in winter.
   
   Would a shortcut pathway be built to get to the condo and apartment buildings and the high school on Emmett Avenue. Emmett Avenue curves in a large half circle.
   
   Living in the Jane and Weston area, I would more likely use the Jane LRT to get down to Eglinton (especially in winter). If the schedules will be more than every 5 minutes, I may consider using the Emmett stop, if there is a shortcut path. (Unless the location of the LRV storage yard is in Eglinton Flats and blocks the pathway.)
   
   
4. Would the Eglinton Crosstown LRT run 24 hours?
   
   
5. I would like to see the portal to the underground portion of the LRT begin just east of Jane Street, under Weston Road.
   
   You may have to re-emerge through an portal on the east side of Weston Road, run above ground past Black Creek, and re-enter a portal past Black Creek. That's a possibility to be considered. This would keep the line more level and not have to battle up or down the hill's inclines.
   
   
6. A temporary route, as the underground portion of the Eglinton Crosstown LRT is being built, could be south down on Jane Street to St. Clair, and east along St. Clair West.
   
   However, I see the Jane LRT entering a portal south of Eglinton and emerging on the other side of the hill at Dalrmple Drive, crossing Alliance Avenue and Black Creek, and re-entering a portal south of Black Creek and running underground to Bloor. If the St. Clair extension enters a portal near Symes Road (east of Gunns Road), it could join the Jane LRT underground at Jane Street and St. Clair Avenue West. Again, going through the hills will keep the line more level and not having to battle the inclines.
   
   This use of Jane and St. Clair can be temporary until the underground portions of the Eglinton Crosstown LRT are completed. But if Jane is to go underground, it may be only short-term.
   
   
7. I would likely be using the Eglinton Crosstown LRT to get to the airport. The Blue 22 would be too expensive for my liking.
   
   You may want to consider, as an option, the extension of the LINK Train down to Eglinton, or a meeting halfway somewhere.
   
   I have been traveling to Newark Airport, and I have used the AirTrain at Newark to get from the airport to the PATH train to New York City and return. Connecting the LINK with the Eglinton Crosstown LRT could be similar.

 

[dowlingm]

I think extending the link train to Eglinton would only be possible a) if converted from rollercoaster and b) if the T1 Pier H/T1 Stop 2 structure permits an eastward path.

 

[Voltz]

I think extending the link train to Eglinton would only be possible a) if converted from rollercoaster and b) if the T1 Pier H/T1 Stop 2 structure permits an eastward path.

I believe that the GTAA has stated that they are in favour of bringing the Eglinton LRT into the basement of T1, their people mover would not have the capacity needed if extended down to eglinton in its current form

 

[W. K. Lis]

I believe that the GTAA has stated that they are in favour of bringing the Eglinton LRT into the basement of T1, their people mover would not have the capacity needed if extended down to eglinton in its current form

If the GTAA's LINK train, if extended down to Eglinton, could connect with the Eglinton Crosstown LRT and the Mississauga BRT (would prefer a Mississauga LRT along Eglinton, but I'm not king of the world) so it could get users from both Toronto and Mississauga. Currently, the LINK has low ridership.

 

[toraerach]

If the GTAA's LINK train, if extended down to Eglinton, could connect with the Eglinton Crosstown LRT and the Mississauga BRT (would prefer a Mississauga LRT along Eglinton, but I'm not king of the world) so it could get users from both Toronto and Mississauga. Currently, the LINK has low ridership.

Yeah, but that's just a another transfer...if you're already lugging your baggage through up to maybe 3-4 transfers, another one might convince people not to even bother. Since Mississaugans would have to transfer either way, why not let the TTC riders avoid a transfer. Or make the LRT ROW wide enough so that the two routes could join up with the buses taking it up to the airport as well, though that might slow the line down a bit.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Yeah, but that's just a another transfer...if you're already lugging your baggage through up to maybe 3-4 transfers, another one might convince people not to even bother. Since Mississaugans would have to transfer either way, why not let the TTC riders avoid a transfer. Or make the LRT ROW wide enough so that the two routes could join up with the buses taking it up to the airport as well, though that might slow the line down a bit.

You're right. If BOTH TTC's Eglinton Crosstown LRT and the want-to-be Mississauga Eglinton LRT went up to serve terminal 1 of the Pearson Airport, it would provide better service to the traveling public.

If Mississauga still insists on a BRT along its portion of Eglinton, Mississauga/Peel will have pay for a wider right-of-way up to the airport to accommodate the buses.

Wonder if there would be a tunnel under the 401/427/runway 24R/runway 24L. (When are they going to extend 06L and 06R over Etobicoke Creek? Sorry, off topic.)

 

[toraerach]

You're right. If BOTH TTC's Eglinton Crosstown LRT and the want-to-be Mississauga Eglinton LRT went up to serve terminal 1 of the Pearson Airport, it would provide better service to the traveling public.

If Mississauga still insists on a BRT along its portion of Eglinton, Mississauga/Peel will have pay for a wider right-of-way up to the airport to accommodate the buses.

It would be great if one or both RTs could serve the hotels at Dixon and Highway 27 as well on their way to the airport. I'm sure they must employ a lot of workers who would appreciate the speedier service not to mention serving the guests. Does anyone know of any potential routes for the LRT getting to the airport from Eglinton?

Also, a bit off topic, but I think it's about time me renamed Highway 27. It confuses a lot of out-of-towners and our highway system is already confusing enough.

 

[W. K. Lis]

It would be great if one or both RTs could serve the hotels at Dixon and Highway 27 as well on their way to the airport. I'm sure they must employ a lot of workers who would appreciate the speedier service not to mention serving the guests. Does anyone know of any potential routes for the LRT getting to the airport from Eglinton?

Do double-ended buses exist? The Eglinton Crosstown LRT will use double-ended LRV's, which have doors on both sides.

If the Mississauga BRT could use a shared right-of-way up to Dixon and the airport, the buses should have doors on both sides of the buses. At Renforth, if a center platform could be used so that Mississauga bound riders could easily transfer from a Eglinton LRV to a Mississauga bus on the other side.

If the buses don't have doors on both sides, the Renforth transfer will be more complicated. More platforms.

Also, at the airport terminal, the Eglinton Crosstown LRV's would simply crossover and reverse directions for the return trip. The Mississauga BRT buses will need a loop to make the return trip.

It would be less complicated if both Eglintons use light rail.

 

[RedRocket191]

Double-ended buses do not exist to my knowledge, but there are buses in service across the world that have doors on both sides of the vehicle.

 

[Hipster Duck]

Also, at the airport terminal, the Eglinton Crosstown LRV's would simply crossover and reverse directions for the return trip. The Mississauga BRT buses will need a loop to make the return trip.

It would be less complicated if both Eglintons use light rail.

Wow, you make it sound like running a streetcar through a wye and then getting the operator to walk to the other end and switch to the opposite track is easy-peasy, but getting a bus driver to make a U-turn on a cul-de-sac is a major barrier.

 

[urbanfan89]

Double-ended buses do not exist to my knowledge, but there are buses in service across the world that have doors on both sides of the vehicle.

Double ended buses do exist.

Chiefly as airport terminal shuttles.

 

[carrefour]

Display boards for the Eglinton Crosstown LRT are now available online at this link in PDF form.

I love how in this report they point to Amsterdam, Stockholm, Montpellier and Strasbourg as examples ... having myself spent some time in MontP and Stras, How can they compare T.O., the 4th largest metro arean in N.America to towns that are smaller in population than London, Ontario?

Until you have been to the Eglinton West corridor, you can't imagine how busy it is. How come ridership levels warrented the beginning of construction of a subway in 1995 but now it doesn't?

People: LRT is not the Jesus Christ of Public Transportation.

It works only within the grand scale of transit:

Minibus --> Bus --> Streetcar --> LRT (grade separated) --> Metro --> Commuter rail (REX) --> Regional Rail (GO) --> High speed rail (VIA) --> Airplane

"As Canada is a huge and expansive country, a national rail system could never work other than a tourist train - Toronto to Winnipeg is almost 1 day away and there is really nothing in between"

So the time it takes to travel 5k on Minibus = 10k on Bus = 15k on Streetcar = etc.

The back bone of the network in a city of 2.5 million cannot be LRT (which will be no more than a souped-up streetcar, considering the ttc can't even get signal priority for Spadina and Queen, 2 line that are almost a real LRT)

 

[Whoaccio]

I still don't get why the TTC can't run the western half of the LRT in the old Richview ROW. I mean, it is RIGHT freaking there! We could have the stretch from the Pearson to Laird more or less entirely grade separated, at no additional cost to grade seperating the Jane-Laird section.

But nooo.... The TTC has to bring in Parisians, and conclude that the only way to incite Champs Elysees style development along Eglinton is some positively Swiss center ROW tram, which probably wont even be faster than a bus. Of course it doesn't matter that most of the Parisian tram system, the London tram system and just about every other LRT under construction try to minimize on street running (I wonder why?). We wouldn't want grandmothers, at risk youth or whoever the city's cause de jour is, to have to cross the other half of the road. The humanity! There is a definite correlation between distance to LRT stops and likelihood to be involved in gangs.

Seriously though, and what is Metrolinx doing about this? Instead of trying to extend the SRT, they should be trying to make sure the TTC actually implements it's best idea properly. If you really wanted to be "bold", tell the TTC to run an LRT in a trench along Eglinton East.

 

[Voltz]

I would also prefer the west section of the LRT built in the Richview ROW, but it may not necessarily be best for the corridor, they may have plans to sell much of that land for medium or high-density development. Building a LRT in a trench through the middle of that area would prevent that from happening.

Even if line where to just be built on the surface in the Richview lands, then the LRT would still have to cross the same streets as it would being built in the middle of the street.

Or maybe they did not even think of future development, and just planned the line for the middle of the street as doing otherwise would involve to much thinking for the TTC to handle.

 

[Rainforest]

I would also prefer the west section of the LRT built in the Richview ROW, but it may not necessarily be best for the corridor, they may have plans to sell much of that land for medium or high-density development. Building a LRT in a trench through the middle of that area would prevent that from happening.

Even if line where to just be built on the surface in the Richview lands, then the LRT would still have to cross the same streets as it would being built in the middle of the street.

Or maybe they did not even think of future development, and just planned the line for the middle of the street as doing otherwise would involve to much thinking for the TTC to handle.

The latter sounds quite probable. Large organizations are often much dumber than their average employee, or even an average manager.