Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[the_yellow_dart]

I really hope they build it to the airport, and soon - this thing needs to kill Blue-22.

 

[Darwinkgo]

No reason can't have both.

 

[RedRocket191]

+1

 

[leopetr]

They also seem to be making provisions to [allow interlining of] Eglinton Crosstown with the SRT. This makes sense, as Eglinton is partially and SRT is fully grade-separated.

Scarborough-Malvern is unlikely to be grade-separated in the near future.

 

[Junction416]

Everyone in essence is a VIP and should be treated that way. And if ever the TTC considered interlining, a potential Eglinton subway could become practically useful to a majority of 416ers for trips heading into the airport, Malton or Mississauga.

Unfortunately not everyone is a VIP... We just don't have the money for it. I subway line would have limited benefit other then sucking money from other transit projects and it would suck the TTCs operating budget. Wasn't it only a couple of years ago that they where threatening to shut the Sheppard Subway down to save money. I agree there should be fast access to the airport that everyone can afford, which is why Blue 22 should be a public heavy rail link with five or six stops between Union and Pearson. But to build a 30km long subway from Yonge to the airport is not a viable. LRT is a practical step for improving transit across the entire city.

Also does anyone know anything about LRT versus Subway operating costs? How much money does it take to maintain and operate a kilometer of light rail versus a kilometer of subway? How much more money per day is it to transport 5,500 people per hour (the projected ridership along eglinton in 2031) on the alternatives? I think a major reason the TTC is pushing LRT is because the operating costs will be lower. We all know how hard it is to fund building a new system, but i'm not sure we realize how much it costs to operate and maintain it and that is all coming from property taxes.

If travel demand along Eglinton does not warrant a subway the TTC should not be saddled with the cost of building and maintaing it. Those operating costs could put the breaks on future expansion into other parts of the City and lower the overall quality of the system.

 

[The Mad Navigator]

Um no, it has not been a blessing in disguise. If the $155 million per kilometre costing for subways at the time was invested along Eglinton, those same 6 kilometres of track used on Sheppard would instead stretch west from the Allen to Scarlett Road. By that point it'd be relatively easy to transition the line to run at-grade, trenched or elevated in the Richview corridor at prices no where near as high as the $304 million/km all underground TYSSE. It would have fulfilled the City's promise to expand subway service to York, Etobicoke and Mississauga; which were next in line to have recieved a subway after the Downsview extension. Then thanks to Ernie Eves we now have a stubway to nowhere that many argue should've been a tram line from day one. Oh, and somehow Vaughan's getting a line ahead of inner 416. These betrayals and the wishy-washiness of elected officials killed what could have been the start of a very important crosstown/cross-regional max capacity transport corridor. What we're getting instead is a 5kph speed upgrade on a bus route that wasn't all that slow to begin with outside of Old Toronto.

Sorry about the delay in my response, quite busy of late.

Well, had the Eglinton subway (Phase 1) been built, I would have supported the project had it not been broken down into 2 phases. Considering how long we wait for new lines to be constructed, who knows when the TTC rapid transit (subway) would reach PIA, and LRT is only now scheduled to arrive in 2020. I'm happy we're getting something at all. Yes, Sheppard should never have been made a subway, but Mel wasn't for it, until he was brainwashed by who I'm not sure to think that it was Subway or nothing on Sheppard for his beloved North York. The city's promises to York, Etobicoke and Mississauga aren't to be taken seriously if you ask me. How often does the city follow through on transit capital project promises anyways? If you're curious as to why I've taken a pro LRT stance is because I've riden them in other cities and I honestly believe that they're a viable mode of transit for this city (IF operated properly). I understand political lines will be created and continue to be created well into the future, but at least some progress is being made.

It would have been better to see that crosstown Sheppard LRT line come to fruition because it has the ridership to sustain that mode. It never really did for metro and that money could've gone to a much more deserving corridor that in the absence of metro is still densely populated, still a tourist and business draw, still the most continuous east-west street in the entire metro (not counting Steeles). Where Eglinton failed was the lack of a political champion and the newly instated amalgamation process that took away the boroughs clout.

I agree 100%. My only issue would have been if you're gonna build a subway on Eglinton, BRT going east from Allen to Laird, would not be the right mode for that stretch, Underground LRT would have had to be the minimum.

If you want to talk about real present-day costing for a Eglinton subway that >5 billion dollar ECLRT could have built a subway line from PIA to the DVP at $217 million/kilometre. If you've ever been out to the Golden Mile you'd know there is not ready for light-rail yet but dedicated bus lanes would make the already fast Eglinton East bus route operate even faster. It's only the method of subway building that the TTC has chosen to turn to that's making these subway cost projections appear so astronomically high. Couple that with the general anti-subway bias that comprises the mindset of the present top TTC brass and you can start see why the City's hands are tied. People aren't stupid. They know the subway is the only rapid transit mode the TTC is capable of running properly. St Clair's already having problems and the TTC has been marketing it as exemplar of what's in store for the future Transit City lines. Are you a gambling man, Navigator?

I'm not fully confident in understanding the economics of subway financing, but I will take your word for it. I do know that the TTC hires high priced consultants to do a lot of the design work, and that probably is the main reason why costs skyrocket for subway construction. I have been out to the Golden Mile before and yes, bus service IS fast out there, but I think neglecting that part of Eglinton would really hurt the area by not giving it a better mode of transit, and BRT certainly isn't a higher mode. If I was living on Eg East, I'd think I was getting shafted for sure.

If the TTC ever learns to implement and operate LRT properly, then it will be a success, for some reason it seems to me that they're trying to sabotage themselves, and why I have no idea. I don't know the mindsets of TTC brass so I can't comment on that, and no people aren't stupid, but they do tend to believe some BS that is told to them.

If the management culture seriously changes, I have faith that future LRT lines will succeed here, if not, then we're in for the same old crap, and I'll just be ambivalent to it all.

Gambling man? Only on the slots.

 

[sixrings]

I live near eglinton and yes I may prefer a subway but ID deffinately take a LRT vs a bus... That being said the city keeps saying that the purpose of using LRT vs subway tech is that it can offer a larger network for the same amount of money as one or two subway lines (either sheppard, eglinton or DRL). I do agree a network would be nice to make. However we are only making a few lines. It seems to me that the LRT approach would deffinately work if it were on more routes + the obvious DRL. For example East West Lawrence could use a line like this. Wilson a cross town line. North South. Duffern Bathurst Kipling Vic Park Kennedy. Basically if the goal of TC was to convert the BLUE LINE bus routes to LRT with larger spacing it would make Toronto a TRANSIT CITY. A couple lines tho wont make that big of a impact. Even if it does well have to wait another 10 years before we can start suggesting new routes. We all know the routes. Why not toll the roads and build the routes NOW.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Getting sore eyes looking through the EA, but found a typo:

Due to the area conditions and constraints described above, it was determined that a stop at Emmett Avenue was not practical. However, to serve riders in this area, an existing pedestrian route at the east end of the Humber River Bridge will be improved. As discussed later in this report, it is also expected that the 32E bus route which serves Emmett Avenue would be maintained.

Should be the 32D bus route which serves Emmett Avenue.

Anyways found some quotes of interest to the people in the Jane and Eglinton area:

Under future conditions, it is proposed that the unsignalized intersection of Eglinton Avenue and Emmett Avenue is to be signalized to facilitate left turning traffic at the intersection, and avoid migration of this traffic to the already constrained Eglinton Avenue and Jane Street intersection, which is the only alternative access route.

The 32C Eglinton West – Trethewey route will be shortened from its current terminating point at Eglinton West Station to the new terminal at Keele Station. This route will operate on Eglinton Avenue from Emmett Avenue to Keele Street.
The 32D Eglinton West – Emmett route will be shortened from its current terminating point at Eglinton West Station to the new terminal at Keele Station. This route will no longer operate on Eglinton Avenue.

Jane Street and Eglinton Avenue will be an important transit interface with high pedestrian transfers. As cuch, a preliminary study was completed for the intersection of Eglinton Avenue and Jane Street. The study considered the implications of interfacing the Eglinton Crosstown LRT with the future Jane LRT at this intersection with both operating in a surface alignment, and the associated pedestrian volume increases of 750 % to as many as 1,462 pedestrians/hour as forecasted.

The preliminary study included a traffic impact analysis which was completed for the Eglinton Avenue and Jane Street signalized intersection and surrounding road network, to assess the future LRV operation and to determine the best alternative for transit operations and pedestrians while minimizing impacts to traffic operation.

Under future conditions, it is proposed that the unsignalized intersection of Eglinton Avenue and Emmett Avenue is to be signalized to facilitate left turning traffic at the intersection, and avoid migration of this traffic to the already constrained Eglinton Avenue and Jane Street intersection, which is the only alternative access route.

The challenges at this intersection are to provide a high quality connection between the two LRT lines that allows for the safe and efficient transfer of passengers while maintaining traffic flow at the intersection.

The projected transfers between the LRT lines as well as the major bus routes at this intersection will make it one of the highest transfer locations on the Eglinton corridor.

The Eglinton Crosstown LRT and Jane LRT will replace the majority of bus services within the study area, including the four existing bus routes on Jane Street (35A, 35B, 35C, 35D) and three of the four existing bus routes on Eglinton Street (32, 32A, 32B). The existing Route 32D bus service does not travel exclusively on Eglinton Avenue and so is assumed to remain operational travelling to Keele Station under future conditions with the LRT. Route 32D was the only bus route included in the analysis.

With the implementation of the LRT network, the Eglinton Avenue and Jane Street intersection is expected to experience a pedestrian volume increase of 750%. This translates to an increase from 166 to 1250 pedestrians in the AM peak period, and an increase from 195 to 1462 pedestrians in the PM peak period. These expected pedestrian transfer figures are based on the Transit City 2031 Ridership Forecast Presentation from the Transit City Forecasting Workshop (August 2008).

Future? So it is not yet carved in stone, a signalized intersection for Eglinton and Emmett.

 

[GenerationW]

How do people feel about the station spacing between Mt. Pleasant, Bayview, and Laird?

If you're suggesting added stops between Mt. Pleasant & Bayview, and Bayview & Laird, that should be seriously considered.

 

[leopetr]

The distance between Mt Pleasant and Bayview is like the distance between St George and Yonge (skipping Bay).

The distance between Bayview and Laird is like the distance between Royal York and Islington.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

All the stations can be moved east or west a bit, which would open up a gap that could warrant another station, or close a gap and make one less viable. The actual walking distances are what's important. A station just west of Banff is one thing. but a station at Rumsey would be horribly unused.

 

[Fresh Start]

If these underground stops were built to 200 metre long station boxes there'd be no reason why stops at Mt Pleasant (Taunton), Bayview and Laird wouldn't be more than enough. Secondary exits to each could be situated at Foreman, Bessborough, and Sutherland making no area residents further than 400 metres from the nearest station.

 

[GenerationW]

Given that bus service is to be maintained on Eglinton between Leslie and Laird, there wouldn't be an impact to that part of Leaside as compared to the current plans.

Which bus, Leslie?

And that's not much help since Leslie to Laird is only three stops, and Leslie is barely used.

 

[ShonTron]

The EA report did call for the Leslie and Leaside buses to be merged into one.

Interestingly, there were no calls for the 61 Nortown and 5 Avenue Road or the 103 Mount Pleasant North and the 74 Mount Pleasant to be merged.

 

[Eug]

Assuming this LRT isn't dead, where would the Bayview station be on the north side? Across from Mac's in the Sunnybrook Plaza parking lot? Just east of that is a little parkette. On the west side is the metro grocery store of Bayview.