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News Roundup for August 27, 2024
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Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

EnviroTO said:
How is it a problem unless you have vehicle counts to go with the data and statistics on how effectively those lanes move? Lakeshore at Ontario Place has 3 EB + 3 WB + turn lanes. Lakeshore at Burloak has 1EB + 1WB + turn lanes. Looks like the bigger problem is at Lakeshore and Burloak since that is 2 lanes less in both directions (total 4) on the same street. Oh wait, lanes don't matter without traffic data.
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I already proved the statement that there would be reduction of lanes from 5 to 2. Then the reply was that 2 lanes is correct, but traffic capacity will still be the same.

Let someone else prove that traffic volumes will fall by enough with the opening of the LRT that traffic capacity can be reduced by over 50%. While your at it, you can find me the proof that the traffic volumes drop by 50% between Avenue Road and Mount Pleasant.
 
BurlOak said:
I already proved the statement that there would be reduction of lanes from 5 to 2. Then the reply was that 2 lanes is correct, but traffic capacity will still be the same.

Let someone else prove that traffic volumes will fall by enough with the opening of the LRT that traffic capacity can be reduced by over 50%. While your at it, you can find me the proof that the traffic volumes drop by 50% between Avenue Road and Mount Pleasant.
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Of course car traffic will not decrease, it probably will increase because of all the new condo developments and because the LRT is overcrowded because the politicians refuse to build a regular subway like any normal city, so people will drive to avoid the overcrowded LRT. Of course the traffic will be bad no matter what happens (otherwise no one would use the LRT) but it is better to have 4 lanes with bad traffic than 2 lanes with worse traffic. Time and time again when we narrow roads to put "bike lanes" in (e.g. Dupont) traffic gets worse, and hardly anyone bikes in Toronto anyway because it is dangerous.
 
BurlOak said:
Let someone else prove that traffic volumes will fall by enough with the opening of the LRT that traffic capacity can be reduced by over 50%.
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You are completely missing the point. How much capacity to carry cars does a lane with a UPS truck stopped in it have? Almost none. How much capacity to carry cars does a lane which allows right turns but only 1 or 2 cars can't get in a light sequence due to the pedestrian traffic? Almost none. How much capacity to carry cars does a lane which is dedicated to buses have? Assuming cars are following the rules, almost none. Traffic volumes don't need to fall. You remove one lane dedicated to buses and remove the side lanes which have very little ability to move traffic today, remove the buses from the traffic mix, and in the end not much has changed with the removal of lanes. The Eglinton Connects study found that the traffic between Avenue and Chaplin and between Duplex and Redpath is the part of Eglinton with the lowest vehicular traffic. Those sections carry about half that of Allen to Bathurst or Eglinton east of Laird. People think that because a place is built up that automatically the traffic would be higher at Yonge and Eglinton but that just doesn't hold true with the facts.
 
andrewpmk said:
Of course car traffic will not decrease, it probably will increase because of all the new condo developments and because the LRT is overcrowded because the politicians refuse to build a regular subway like any normal city, so people will drive to avoid the overcrowded LRT. Of course the traffic will be bad no matter what happens (otherwise no one would use the LRT) but it is better to have 4 lanes with bad traffic than 2 lanes with worse traffic. Time and time again when we narrow roads to put "bike lanes" in (e.g. Dupont) traffic gets worse, and hardly anyone bikes in Toronto anyway because it is dangerous.
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Apparently you don't know much about the Eglinton line. I'd suggest reading up on it a bit before saying any more.

You should read up on it. It's frigging genius! It IS in a subway anywhere where we expect a higher ridership! So put away the tin foil hats, overcrowded LRT won't be a concern in our lifetimes.

We should build a statue to honour David Miller. Best mayor ever!
 
EnviroTO said:
You are completely missing the point. How much capacity to carry cars does a lane with a UPS truck stopped in it have? Almost none. How much capacity to carry cars does a lane which allows right turns but only 1 or 2 cars can't get in a light sequence due to the pedestrian traffic? Almost none. How much capacity to carry cars does a lane which is dedicated to buses have? Assuming cars are following the rules, almost none. Traffic volumes don't need to fall. You remove one lane dedicated to buses and remove the side lanes which have very little ability to move traffic today, remove the buses from the traffic mix, and in the end not much has changed with the removal of lanes. The Eglinton Connects study found that the traffic between Avenue and Chaplin and between Duplex and Redpath is the part of Eglinton with the lowest vehicular traffic. Those sections carry about half that of Allen to Bathurst or Eglinton east of Laird. People think that because a place is built up that automatically the traffic would be higher at Yonge and Eglinton but that just doesn't hold true with the facts.
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Anyone who has visited Yonge & Eg knows how many delivery trucks park on the street, blocking an entire lane.

Also some of these lanes are closed for years due to condo construction. For example right now for the Madison condo just east of Eglinton has concrete blocks closing off one lane.

Also anyone who has been to Yonge & Eg knows many buses you can see at any time during the day, it takes up a huge amount of the road space, and they stop frequently.

Of course, now the road is 2 lanes due to LRT construction.
 
innsertnamehere said:
But again, and as always, This project has unanimous support from local groups, businesses, community organizations, politicians, and planners. what is wrong? Everyone who this lane reduction would actually effect seems to be perfectly fine with it.
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Which is why there is no way in hell I'm voting for John Tory after his stupid objections to this. He's just another con pretending to be 'progressive' and fiscally responsible.
 
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ehlow said:
Also anyone who has been to Yonge & Eg knows many buses you can see at any time during the day, it takes up a huge amount of the road space, and they stop frequently.
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It's not just Y-E. It is every intersection between Laird and Yonge. Every one of them crowded with rows of 3-4 buses is the norm. On bad days this number expands up to 7. I dread that those bad days will increase significantly with all the condo and LRT construction going on.

In peak rush hour traffic, the buses alone contribute the most congestion, especially as they have to switch between the side and middle lane to pick up passengers and to avoid parked cars, delivery trucks, and most significantly, other buses. Seriously, only one bus is needed to pick up passengers at stops so the other 4 buses behind it must jump into traffic to bypass the bus at the stop. Combine this with intersections and you see situations where both eastbound lanes are blocked by buses.

Once you remove buses from the equation, Eglinton will suddenly move much much better during peak morning rush hour. In non-peak hours, Eglinton is usually fine.

salsa said:
Which is why there is no way in hell I'm voting for John Tory after his stupid objections to this. He's just another con pretending to be 'progressive' and fiscally responsible.
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Agreed, this was the announcement that put me off of Tory permanently.
 
It looks like there are only 2 traffic lanes total at the Yonge & Eglinton intersection itself. What is the gray strip in the middle of the road? Are they going to ban left and right turns onto Yonge at all times? If not, I see that being a problem...
 
A bit of a rant:

Cars may rule in most of suburban Toronto, but we're not talking about Scarborough here, this is Yonge & Eg, one of the most urban places in the city outside of downtown.

Walking & transit modal share is extremely high, sidewalks are packed full of people (even though the pedestrian realm isn't great). Cars regularly can't turn at the intersection due to the volume of people walking (and are banned from turning left during rush hour).

The neighbourhood is filled with high-rise apartment buildings, very high density, and will soon get several new large condo towers, and a huge amount of these people walk to Eglinton station every day. There is also lots of commercial & retail use. This place will get even busier once the Eglinton LRT opens.

My point is, if there's any place in Toronto where the cars needs should not trump pedestrian's needs, if there's one place where the pedestrian realm should be improved, it's here.
 
ehlow said:
A bit of a rant:

Cars may rule in most of suburban Toronto, but we're not talking about Scarborough here, this is Yonge & Eg, one of the most urban places in the city outside of downtown.

Walking & transit modal share is extremely high, sidewalks are packed full of people (even though the pedestrian realm isn't great). Cars regularly can't turn at the intersection due to the volume of people walking (and are banned from turning left during rush hour).

The neighbourhood is filled with high-rise apartment buildings, very high density, and will soon get several new large condo towers, and a huge amount of these people walk to Eglinton station every day. There is also lots of commercial & retail use. This place will get even busier once the Eglinton LRT opens.

My point is, if there's any place in Toronto where the cars needs should not trump pedestrian's needs, if there's one place where the pedestrian realm should be improved, it's here.
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Agreed... we don't need another node that caters to the car.... Didnt we learn anything from yonge and sheppard?
 
sixrings said:
Agreed... we don't need another node that caters to the car.... Didnt we learn anything from yonge and sheppard?
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The people who show up at these public consultations are not the same people who live in this area. I think that the bike/anti-car nuts are severely overrepresented at these meetings. Hardly anyone rides bikes around Yonge/Eglinton, even in the summer. Pretty much everyone who lives in this area either takes TTC or drives. Traffic on Eglinton is horrible and we don't want to make it even worse.

There is a lot of condo development in this area which means that the light rail and the roads will be getting a lot busier. I have a strong suspicion that the LRT will be much busier than expected, because of all the new condo development. There are a whole bunch of buildings going up at Yonge/Eglinton right now. Also Don Mills/Eglinton has a lot of development potential, probably the most of any area along the line other than near Yonge - the Celestica site (if Celestica moves its headquarters somewhere else like Markham), the Real Canadian Superstore, the Ontario Science Centre parking lot and the parking lot in front of the Mormon church could all be replaced with dozens of tall condo buildings. Keeping Eglinton 4 lanes does not mean that Yonge/Eglinton "caters to the car", it just means that people have a choice between taking the LRT and driving.
 
andrewpmk said:
The people who show up at these public consultations are not the same people who live in this area. I think that the bike/anti-car nuts are severely overrepresented at these meetings.
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I live here and I went to the meetings, and I met other people who live in the area at the meetings too. I would say most people who spoke up lived near Eglinton. What are you basing your assumption that the people who live here didn't go to the meetings. It totally contradicts my experience attending the meetings.

andrewpmk said:
There is a lot of condo development in this area which means that the light rail and the roads will be getting a lot busier. I have a strong suspicion that the LRT will be much busier than expected, because of all the new condo development. There are a whole bunch of buildings going up at Yonge/Eglinton right now. Also Don Mills/Eglinton has a lot of development potential, probably the most of any area along the line other than near Yonge - the Celestica site (if Celestica moves its headquarters somewhere else like Markham), the Real Canadian Superstore, the Ontario Science Centre parking lot and the parking lot in front of the Mormon church could all be replaced with dozens of tall condo buildings. Keeping Eglinton 4 lanes does not mean that Yonge/Eglinton "caters to the car", it just means that people have a choice between taking the LRT and driving.
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How do you think all the the people in the new condos along Eglinton will get to the LRT or subway station? They aren't driving there. They are walking or transferring from a connecting bus.
 
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