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Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

howl said:
I've pretty sure its been decided the trains will be green. I suspect Metrolinx wants to own the Eglinton line because it will be the first of a whole network of regional transportation lines they will own - in addition to all the GO lines. They want all their lines to be green.

Metrolinx will own the Eglinton line but the operation of the vehicles will be contracted out to the TTC. My understanding is the station construction contact includes an extended maintenance period and require the contractors to provide their own long-term financing thus putting the financial risk of cost overruns on the private sector rather than on the taxpayers, which is the standard for most large-scale Provincial projects now, so the people who construct the stations will essentially operate them for some period of time.
Click to expand...

I think people will be wondering why all vehicles operated by the TTC are red except Eglinton lol. I'm assuming the TTC logo will still be displayed?
 
I wonder if Metrolinx owning and operating the Eglinton LRT is a 'test case' for Metrolinx eventually uploading the TTC system, or at least the subway system. If they have experience running a local rapid transit line (ie not GO), then that will give them some more credibility if the time comes that they're to assume control of all or part of the TTC system.
 
gweed123 said:
I wonder if Metrolinx owning and operating the Eglinton LRT is a 'test case' for Metrolinx eventually uploading the TTC system, or at least the subway system. If they have experience running a local rapid transit line (ie not GO), then that will give them some more credibility if the time comes that they're to assume control of all or part of the TTC system.
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Or rather in running Hamilton, Mississauga, Waterloo lines?

Wait is Metrolinx involved with Waterloo?
 
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ehlow said:
I think people will be wondering why all vehicles operated by the TTC are red except Eglinton lol. I'm assuming the TTC logo will still be displayed?
Click to expand...

I think the ideas is the Presto Card and/or an integrated fare structure will allow you to ride on every system in the network so it doesn't matter who owns which line. Revenues will be shared based on ridership figures. Eventually you'll be able to get on a YRT bus in Markham, transfer to the TTC subway, get on a GO train to Mississauga and then take a MT bus to your final destination all for one fare. There will probably be a variable fare structure (the farther you go the more you pay), but the goal is to have the whole system as seamlessly integrated as possible. The distinction between who operates each line will slowly disappear.
 
I wonder if Metrolinx owning and operating the Eglinton LRT is a 'test case' for Metrolinx eventually uploading the TTC system, or at least the subway system. If they have experience running a local rapid transit line (ie not GO), then that will give them some more credibility if the time comes that they're to assume control of all or part of the TTC system.
Click to expand...

I wonder if anyone is even thinking this far out.
 
WislaHD said:
Or rather in running Hamilton, Mississauga, Waterloo lines?

Wait is Metrolinx involved with Waterloo?
Click to expand...

Hamilton and Mississauga I can definitely see (although I don't think it's been confirmed one way or the other). Waterloo I'm not sure, although I would suspect it would likely be GRT, as the connections between GRT and other GTHA systems is virtually non-existent. The only transit connection to the "outside world" in that case is GO.

Edward said:
I wonder if anyone is even thinking this far out.
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I would hope that Metrolinx is. Firstly, they need a dedicated revenue stream. Once they're sure they can upload local agencies (or parts of local agencies) under their jurisdiction without being subject to the whims of Queen's Park, I suspect we'll start to see that begin.
 
Waterloo is tendering out the Design-Build-Finance-Operate-Maintain aspects of their LRT project. They only hitched onto Metrolinx' vehicle order.
 
TheTigerMaster said:
I've scraped this together. I'm not going to claim that this hastily put together list is 100% accurate. But it should give us a good overview of where money has come from.

It looks like the City of Toronto (or any preceding municipality) was involved in funding 8 of the 12 subway expansions in Toronto. the entire 30 km Yonge-University-Spadina line was built with municipal transit taxes and TTC surplus, with the exception of a small amount of corporate and provincial funding for the University Subway. The Province of Ontario has assisted with funding with 5 of the 12 subway projects. The City of Toronto exclusively funded 6 of the 8 projects it contributed to. The Province of Ontario exclusively funded 2 of the 5 it's been involved in.

So it looks like the City of Toronto and Province of Ontario have each built more or less half of subway network. The City building Yonge-University-Spadina and the province building the Scarborough RT and the largest chunk of the Bloor-Danforth. They were also responsible for the Sheppard Boondogg... Stubwa... Subway if that counts for anything (it should count against them :confused:)

Yonge (Union to Eglinton): City of Toronto
University: City of Toronto, Province of Ontario, Private Donations
Bloor-Danforth (Keele to Woodbine): Province of Ontario
Bloor-Danforth (Keele to Islington, Woodbine to Warden): Metro Toronto, Province of Ontario
Bloor-Danforth (Woodbine to Kennedy, Islington to Kipling): Metro Toronto
Yonge (Eglinton to York Mills): Metro Toronto
Yonge (York mills to Finch): Metro Toronto
Spadina (St. George to Wilson): Metro Toronto
Spadina (Wilson to Downsview): Metro Toronto
Scarborough RT: Province of Ontario
Sheppard Subway: Province of Ontario
Click to expand...

That's not quite how it happened....

The TTC and the City teamed up for the original Yonge segment and the University Line, which was actually the first phase of the Bloor-Danforth. The second phase was from St. George to Greenwood, with the third extending it to Jane and Woodbine, and a fourth unfunded phase extending it further to Warden and Islington. The Province chipped in some funding, which allowed the second and third phases to be completed simultaneously, and the fourth phase to be built.

After that, all of the extensions built until the 1980 openings received funding from both Metro and the Province, usually something around a 50/50 split. The SRT was the first wholly-funded Metro project - until the Province sunk their claws into it and paid for all of the conversion costs to ICTS. Downsview and Sheppard were both jointly funded, with the Province contributing the majority of funding (although the Feds did chip in land for Downsview, and some small percentage of funding for Sheppard).

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
smallspy said:
That's not quite how it happened....

The TTC and the City teamed up for the original Yonge segment and the University Line, which was actually the first phase of the Bloor-Danforth. The second phase was from St. George to Greenwood, with the third extending it to Jane and Woodbine, and a fourth unfunded phase extending it further to Warden and Islington. The Province chipped in some funding, which allowed the second and third phases to be completed simultaneously, and the fourth phase to be built.

After that, all of the extensions built until the 1980 openings received funding from both Metro and the Province, usually something around a 50/50 split. The SRT was the first wholly-funded Metro project - until the Province sunk their claws into it and paid for all of the conversion costs to ICTS. Downsview and Sheppard were both jointly funded, with the Province contributing the majority of funding (although the Feds did chip in land for Downsview, and some small percentage of funding for Sheppard).

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
Click to expand...

Wow. If I'm understanding correctly, it looks like most of Toronto's subways were paid for by the City and partly paid for by transit taxes. I would not have expected that based on the conjecture at City Hall

Do you know how much funding the province chipped in for phase two and three of the Bloor-Danforth?

If Chow and Tory do push additional transit taxes they really need to drill this into the head of Torontoninas: The entire Yonge-University-Spadina and most of the Bloor-Danforth was paid for and built by the City of Toronto using transit taxes (with a small amount of TTC surplus and donations). Transit expansion in Toronto stopped once we started depending on the province.
 
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