Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[innsertnamehere]

^I'm fine with the eglinton airport, I'm just saying that most people seem to have this idea that the UPX can be a DRL line, while it can't really.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I think the UPX's primary target is the business traveller....what is news to me from your post is that they are staying at Bloor-Yonge? I always thought that the typical business traveller/visitor to Toronto is staying at the hotels down nearer the financial core...ie the ones that are an easy walk from Union. If that is the case, both the cost (which we don't know yet but expect to be in the low/mid $20 range) and the time (which we expect to be in the 25 minute range) are quite different from your post.

I picked Bloor-Yonge because it was a "neutral" starting position.

But even in the financial district, there is no way the travel time would be 25 minutes.

The UPX has 15 minute frequencies. Lets say that's means an average of 7.5 minutes. Then factor in the walking times of about 10 minutes. And then the travel time of 25 minutes. That's still a ~42 minute trip.

 

[sixrings]

^I'm fine with the eglinton airport, I'm just saying that most people seem to have this idea that the UPX can be a DRL line, while it can't really.

No offense but until Steve Munro tells me that I remain sceptical that is a fact.. It might be but I dont know... Has steve commented on this issue? If it isnt possible why were so many counsellors trying to suggest that it could be repurposed.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I highly doubt that you could just run Toronto Rockets on the line. If you wanted subway service there, we'd need to widen the rail corridor in some places and run TTC gauge tracks parallel to it. The UPX infrastructure is totally useless for TTC subway service.

 

[sixrings]

I highly doubt that you could just run Toronto Rockets on the line. If you wanted subway service there, we'd need to widen the rail corridor in some places and run TTC gauge tracks parallel to it. The UPX infrastructure is totally useless for TTC subway service.

couldnt they just rip up the tracks and put down subway tracks"?

 

[innsertnamehere]

No offense but until Steve Munro tells me that I remain sceptical that is a fact.. It might be but I dont know... Has steve commented on this issue? If it isnt possible why were so many counsellors trying to suggest that it could be repurposed.

because councillors have very little knowledge of the inner workings of a provincial transit agency. what I pointed out isn't that hard to understand, the UPX tracks are on the western side of Georgetown, but the station at Union is on the eastern side, meaning that the trains must pass over up to 6 different tracks to reach it. if this were to occur every 2.5 minutes, it would make other GO operations almost impossible. the UPX operates under GO conditions, mixed rail, along with freight and VIA operations. to suggest it is a simple operation to make it a metro style service is silly. it would cost billions to do so, at which point you could build the western DRL as a subway as well as the Eglinton airport for minimally more cost. as with many cities, Toronto's airport access will remain either the premium UPX or the airport express bus. (which would take almost as long as an LRT connection anyways)

 

[sixrings]

because councillors have very little knowledge of the inner workings of a provincial transit agency. what I pointed out isn't that hard to understand, the UPX tracks are on the western side of Georgetown, but the station at Union is on the eastern side, meaning that the trains must pass over up to 6 different tracks to reach it. if this were to occur every 2.5 minutes, it would make other GO operations almost impossible. the UPX operates under GO conditions, mixed rail, along with freight and VIA operations. to suggest it is a simple operation to make it a metro style service is silly. it would cost billions to do so, at which point you could build the western DRL as a subway as well as the Eglinton airport for minimally more cost. as with many cities, Toronto's airport access will remain either the premium UPX or the airport express bus. (which would take almost as long as an LRT connection anyways)

you just made me very sad.... ok i will be happy with the Eglinton line to the \AIRPORT

 

[TheTigerMaster]

The UPX issue has almost turned into an "us vs. them" issue, whereby all of us "normal folk" hate on the big bad rich business guys that'll be able to afford the UPX fares lol. Just a comedic observation. (Note: I understand the greater issue at hand )

Rightly or wrongly, the UPX is very much an us vs. them issue. There's no getting around the fact that taxpayers are paying hundreds of millions of dollars to build a line that will cost $30 per passenger per direction to operate, just so a few businessmen can get a comfortable ride and WiFi to their financial district hotel. And the lack of stations and high the high ticket price will very likely make this line useless to "regular" Torontonians.

But I really do feel that this us vs. them attitude in the UPX is misplaced. What people should really be upset is that the UPX is a poorly planned, cheaply built wasted opportunity. If we had decided to widen the rail corridors, lay down TTC gauge track on the Weston Corridor from Bloor to Eglinton, connect it to the DRL, build additional stations and complete the Eglinton LRT to Pearson, we would have a system that would have moved literally dozens (maybe hundreds) of times more people for a relatively low price.

because councillors have very little knowledge of the inner workings of a provincial transit agency. what I pointed out isn't that hard to understand, the UPX tracks are on the western side of Georgetown, but the station at Union is on the eastern side, meaning that the trains must pass over up to 6 different tracks to reach it. if this were to occur every 2.5 minutes, it would make other GO operations almost impossible. the UPX operates under GO conditions, mixed rail, along with freight and VIA operations. to suggest it is a simple operation to make it a metro style service is silly. it would cost billions to do so, at which point you could build the western DRL as a subway as well as the Eglinton airport for minimally more cost. as with many cities, Toronto's airport access will remain either the premium UPX or the airport express bus. (which would take almost as long as an LRT connection anyways)

+1

 

[TheTigerMaster]

couldnt they just rip up the tracks and put down subway tracks"?

No. Other trains use that line.

But widening the rail corridor (especially from Bloor to Eglinton) would have been a very inexpensive solution that would have added significantly to our rapid transit network. This was such a wasted opportunity

 

[sixrings]

see i thought that the upx was on a new line... i thought thats what all the construction was about... widening the corridor to put down a new line.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

see i thought that the upx was on a new line... i thought thats what all the construction was about... widening the corridor to put down a new line.

The only new construction is a spur line from Weston corridor to Pearson, the new stations and some other minor things.

 

[innsertnamehere]

they are adding tracks to the corridor, but it is still mixed rail tracks.

changing the UPX to a ttc operation would have raised the cost from $500 million to multiple billions, it wouldn't have been an easy operation.

and I repeat, nobody has any idea what ticket prices will be. so stop saying it will cost $30.

also, the point is to get to the airport. if you are going to hop on a $200-$2000 flight, are really that cheap to only be willing to pay $2.65 to get there?

 

[TheTigerMaster]

and I repeat, nobody has any idea what ticket prices will be. so stop saying it will cost $30.

The auditor general has said that it would be ~$30 for the operation to be cost neutral. But we don't know what the ticket price will be. I feel that $20 will be a good price, but that would still need a massive subsidy

also, the point is to get to the airport. if you are going to hop on a $200-$2000 flight, are really that cheap to only be willing to pay $2.65 to get there?

It's not a matter of being cheap. There are many families in this city that are running on tight budgets. They won't be able afford to pay $20 - $30 (I'm estimating the cost - I know that we don't know the final cost) per direction. For a family of four, that's $160 - $240 for a round trip on the UPX.

However, the cost of the ride to the airport isn't the main frustration for most people. It's that the ticket price for this line will likely be so high that it can't be used for their daily commutes. Of course this line isn't designed to help move Torontonians to and from work, but I hope that we can see why someone living in Rexdale would be incredibly frustrated that they're subsidizing this thing.

 

[nfitz]

However, the cost of the ride to the airport isn't the main frustration for most people. It's that the ticket price for this line will likely be so high that it can't be used for their daily commutes. Of course this line isn't designed to help move Torontonians to and from work, but I hope that we can see why someone living in Rexdale would be incredibly frustrated that they're subsidizing this thing.

There's no reason they could charge $30 to the airport, and simple existing GO fare to Weston. It's not stopping in Rexdale.

 

[andrewpmk]

they are adding tracks to the corridor, but it is still mixed rail tracks.

changing the UPX to a ttc operation would have raised the cost from $500 million to multiple billions, it wouldn't have been an easy operation.

and I repeat, nobody has any idea what ticket prices will be. so stop saying it will cost $30.

also, the point is to get to the airport. if you are going to hop on a $200-$2000 flight, are really that cheap to only be willing to pay $2.65 to get there?

A lot of the potential users are people who work at the airport or the surrounding area, they are not going to pay outrageous prices to use this line, they will continue to clog up the Gardiner and 401.