Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[gweed123]

And it was doing this by diverting riders from the Bloor-Danforth line to the Eglinton line. Which then dumps them on the Yonge line between Eglinton and Bloor. This doesn't really help much, just moves people around. The money putting Eglinton underground from Don Mills to Kennedy would be better spent extending the BD line to Scarborough Centre - then there wouldn't be the passenger demand to force Eglinton underground.

Either way, in order to eliminate an inconvenience for pretty much all of Scarborough, more money is going to need to be spent somewhere. The question then becomes where? From what I can tell, there seems to be 5 options on the table:

1) Keep Eglinton East at-grade, and run it independently from the Scarborough LRT.

2) Elevate Eglinton East, and interline it with the Scarborough LRT, creating a single thru-line.

3) Tunnel Eglinton East, and interline it with the Scarborough LRT, creating a single thru-line.

4) Extend the Bloor-Danforth Subway to STC, and leave Eglinton East at-grade.

5) Extend the Bloor-Danforth Subway to Sheppard & McCowan, and leave Eglinton East at-grade.


Personally, I favour Options 2 or 5. Option 1 doesn't really work from a network perspective. Option 3 is an unnecessary tunnelling expense when less expensive options are available that will achieve the same result (grade separation). Option 4 is good, but extending the subway that extra stop really simplifies a lot of network connectivity issues, particularly with whatever is placed along Sheppard East.

 

[sixrings]

5) Extend the Bloor-Danforth Subway to Sheppard & McCowan, and leave Eglinton East at-grade.

.

This works for me

 

[nfitz]

Either way, in order to eliminate an inconvenience for pretty much all of Scarborough, more money is going to need to be spent somewhere. The question then becomes where? From what I can tell, there seems to be 5 options on the table:

1) Keep Eglinton East at-grade, and run it independently from the Scarborough LRT.

2) Elevate Eglinton East, and interline it with the Scarborough LRT, creating a single thru-line.

3) Tunnel Eglinton East, and interline it with the Scarborough LRT, creating a single thru-line.

4) Extend the Bloor-Danforth Subway to STC, and leave Eglinton East at-grade.

5) Extend the Bloor-Danforth Subway to Sheppard & McCowan, and leave Eglinton East at-grade.

There's other options. For example Keep Eglinton East at-grade and interline it with the Scarborough RT. Eliminate a couple more stations, to speed it up. What makes the current alignment less effective and has lower ridership is the change at Kennedy, and the extra travel time from all the surface stations, much more than at-grade vs underground.

 

[gweed123]

There's other options. For example Keep Eglinton East at-grade and interline it with the Scarborough RT. Eliminate a couple more stations, to speed it up. What makes the current alignment less effective and has lower ridership is the change at Kennedy, and the extra travel time from all the surface stations, much more than at-grade vs underground.

I was under the impression that dumping all of the extra SLRT riders onto an at-grade Eglinton East would be too much for the at-grade LRT to effectively handle, hence the need for grade separation in order to maintain the needed headways. Eliminating a few stops may help a little bit, but you still have a lot of cross streets to deal with.

 

[nfitz]

I was under the impression that dumping all of the extra SLRT riders onto an at-grade Eglinton East would be too much for the at-grade LRT to effectively handle, hence the need for grade separation in order to maintain the needed headways. Eliminating a few stops may help a little bit, but you still have a lot of cross streets to deal with.

I don't think the ridership forecast was THAT high. And the capacity of at-grade LRT isn't necessarily clear. A system like Eglinton East with only about 5 crossings in 5 km or so and 90-metre long trains, is going to have much higher capacity than the King, or even Spadina streetcar.

 

[gweed123]

I don't think the ridership forecast was THAT high. And the capacity of at-grade LRT isn't necessarily clear. A system like Eglinton East with only about 5 crossings in 5 km or so and 90-metre long trains, is going to have much higher capacity than the King, or even Spadina streetcar.

12,000 pphpd in 2031. With paired vehicles carrying around 500 people per trains (paired vehicles), that's 1 vehicle just over every 2 minutes, which is an even shorter headway than the King or Queen streetcars.

I have my doubts that, even with a reduced number of stations, the at-grade portion can adequately handle that many passengers effectively. I have a feeling that it would become a choke point.

Ottawa is projecting around 14,000 for the early 2020s, and they were absolutely adamant that the trunk portion of the system must be completely grade-separated.

 

[nfitz]

12,000 pphpd in 2031. With paired vehicles carrying around 500 people per trains (paired vehicles), that's 1 vehicle just over every 2 minutes, which is an even shorter headway than the King or Queen streetcars.

Or three minutes with 3-car trains.

 

[M II A II R II K]

Or metroize the Stouffville Line for a direct route and get to avoid the Bloor, Eglinton, Yonge, and any LRTs altogether.

 

[ssiguy2]

Or do the relatively low cost upgrades for the current SRT to handle MK111 SkyTrain cars, elevate the Kennedy to DM section and create a seemless grade separated system with higher capacity and due to automation, cheaper to run. Would also mean that the current SkyTrain maintenance/garage/control centre would not have to be gutted for LRt but just expanded. Would also mean none of the current SRT stations would have to be redesigned and would also result in almost no interuption to service.

 

[gweed123]

Or three minutes with 3-car trains.

I thought they were planning on running paired vehicles on Eglinton. But I guess they could squeeze in 3 cars. Still would create a pinch point on the at-grade section though.

Or do the relatively low cost upgrades for the current SRT to handle MK111 SkyTrain cars, elevate the Kennedy to DM section and create a seemless grade separated system with higher capacity and due to automation, cheaper to run. Would also mean that the current SkyTrain maintenance/garage/control centre would not have to be gutted for LRt but just expanded. Would also mean none of the current SRT stations would have to be redesigned and would also result in almost no interuption to service.

But would that not mean a substantial redesign of all of the tunnelled portion of Eglinton? You have to wonder if it's really less expensive to do Mark II/III ICTS for Eglinton + converting the SRT vs doing the entire thing as LRT.

On the plus side, Mark II ICTS would guarantee that Eglinton West would be grade separated, so that's definitely a plus.

 

[innsertnamehere]

I always thought the plan was 3 train cars on eglinton, with 2 train cars on Sheppard and finch.

 

[BurlOak]

I don't think the ridership forecast was THAT high. And the capacity of at-grade LRT isn't necessarily clear. A system like Eglinton East with only about 5 crossings in 5 km or so and 90-metre long trains, is going to have much higher capacity than the King, or even Spadina streetcar.

I thought I would count the 5 crossings. They are:

1. DVP SB Ramp
2. DVP NB Ramp
3. Wynford
4. Swift
5. Bermondsey
6. Vic Park
7. Eglinton Square
8. Pharmacy
9. Pharmacy EB Left Turn (200m East of Pharmacy)
10. Lebovic
11. Warden
12. Sinnott
13. Birchmount
14. Rosemount
15. Ionview

From 2010 EA (http://www.toronto.ca/involved/proj...3-project-description-plates-plates-46-89.pdf)

 

[nfitz]

They have to find a way to reduce the number of those. Swift ... really? People only use Swift because Bermondsey backs up.

 

[Hipster Duck]

A cut and cover or elevated Vic Park station would eliminate the relatively complicated intersection around Victoria Park and Eglinton Square and the eastern approach ramp could probably be sited just east of Pharmacy, too. If that were the case, I'd eliminate the Pharmacy station and put the Vic Park station to the immediate east (basically below the strip of grass that is now that forlorn parkette).

They could also eliminate left-turns at Lebovic/Hakimi by having combination U-turns/left turns at Warden and Pharmacy.

 

[BurlOak]

I still think the best option at this point is to go elevated, and either have the City of Toronto fork over the extra cash to make it happen, or take the non-federal funds from Sheppard and put them towards Eglinton East. I'm sure for many Scarberians, they'd much rather see that money going towards creating a 1-seat ride from Scarborough to Yonge anyway.

Also Scarborough to Allen Road (Spadina Line) for those going to York U and U of T.

That option would allow them to keep the SLRT tail at the same length, although it would mean the full cost of the Conlins Rd Yard is borne by the SLRT project and not shared between it and the SELRT. Of course, if it's being run as a single thru-line there may be an option of running everything out of Mt. Dennis, although I'm not sure if it has enough capacity for that.

The 2 main alternatives are to have the continuous ECLRT/SRT or to have in-median ECLRT, no SRT, and B-D extended to STC (or Sheppard). My question is which would work better:
1. The ECLRT/SRT with the Kodak Yard in the West and a small yard at McCowan in the East - No Conlins, or
2. The ECLRT with the portion to Kennedy in-median, with only the Kodak Yard in the West.

I would guess that having a smaller yard in the East, with extra track would be better than no yard in the East, with a shorter track length.