Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[smallspy]

I have never understood why the TTC feels the need to specify that a rapid transit service is a "line" on the destination signs. Especially on the subway, I believe it's the "Line 1 to Vaughan" exposure that doesn't fully fit so it has to scroll. For 40 years we had "501 Neville Park", can we go back to that? Why not "5 Kennedy"?

Because "5 Kennedy" doesn't actually indicate anything precise about the route, only it's destination. That's why they've gotten away from the old "501 Neville Park" destination signs on the streetcars and have added the route's name on the destination signs.

And while it would be good practice to make the subways display the same, their destination signs are considerably smaller and so it is more difficult to put all of that information up there.

Dan

 

[T3G]

Because "5 Kennedy" doesn't actually indicate anything precise about the route, only it's destination. That's why they've gotten away from the old "501 Neville Park" destination signs on the streetcars and have added the route's name on the destination signs.

And while it would be good practice to make the subways display the same, their destination signs are considerably smaller and so it is more difficult to put all of that information up there.

Dan

The front signs on the Crosstown Flexitys appear to be more or less the same width as that of the cars on the downtown network - there is no way "Line 5 to Kennedy" is going to fit on those unless the font chosen is obscenely small, in which case they might as well have gone ahead and done the two line Route name / destination display, or the display changes dynamically as it does on the subway, which is not going to be helpful if you're seeing a car approach your stop at high speed, either. This seems like a worst of all worlds solution. Which we are very fond of here.

Incidentally, if "5 Kennedy" doesn't tell anyone anything about the route, all those European cities that don't use route names because their routes run on so many different streets, many of which also change their name every few kilometres, must be in a total shambles. In a city where we have 0 rapid transit services that share physical trackage, why can't signage on the platform be used to convey information about the routing and the destination sign be used only for the most essential information?

 

[bono47]

I don't wish to be a tease, or provide non-news.

I do wish to say, that I've been given some info, by someone kind enough to whisper to me, that leads me to believe an announcement on the beginning of service could come in the next few weeks.

I can't be much more specific at this time...........

Thank you to the person who was so kind as to share.

Not to stroke the rumour mill too much but the walls have come down (literally) at Yonge/Eg. This was previously boarded up.

 

[Archii]

By chance, does anyone know if Metrolinx/TTC will be kind enough to put back the ceiling at Eglinton? I understand that other subway stations left in a state of repair due to funding/lack of care, but Eglinton is the site of a multibillion dollar transit line so…

 

[smallspy]

The front signs on the Crosstown Flexitys appear to be more or less the same width as that of the cars on the downtown network - there is no way "Line 5 to Kennedy" is going to fit on those unless the font chosen is obscenely small, in which case they might as well have gone ahead and done the two line Route name / destination display, or the display changes dynamically as it does on the subway, which is not going to be helpful if you're seeing a car approach your stop at high speed, either. This seems like a worst of all worlds solution. Which we are very fond of here.

They seem to be big enough for the legacy network. Why wouldn't they be for Eglinton?

Incidentally, if "5 Kennedy" doesn't tell anyone anything about the route, all those European cities that don't use route names because their routes run on so many different streets, many of which also change their name every few kilometres, must be in a total shambles. In a city where we have 0 rapid transit services that share physical trackage, why can't signage on the platform be used to convey information about the routing and the destination sign be used only for the most essential information?

Unlike most European cities, Toronto is built on a grid, and most of our routes follow straight lines and major roads. There is no reason why a bus or streetcar operating on Dundas - one of those few non-straight roads - can't actually tell people that it is operating on Dundas. Or for that same reason, why we want to tell people that a bus operating on Eglinton is actually on the Leaside route, and not on Eglinton.

Also, it's not all-or-nothing. Just because we may want to emulate their service doesn't also mean we need to take their shitty wayfinding, too. That's just silly.

Dan

 

[crs1026]

The more information the better, to a point. Most surface riders just need to know the route number and destination, LRT and subway riders need mostly to know the direction as there aren't many ways to change the route.

But..... it's very important to me to know that my 501 car goes "To Humber" and not just "To Roncesvalles". And where routes have branches, or variables, seeing just "35F' isn't helpful... few people have memorised the A, B, C variations, and if they did, TTC may have added some new permutations. Crosstown doesn't have many of these complications but conformity has some value so why confuse people with something non-standard..

The tourist is going to be confused, regardless. I wouldn't obsess over serving their needs except in a generally helpful way.

Wayfinding never lasts long.... too good a meal ticket internally and for consultants. Regular riders adapt and the fine points work themselves out.

- Paul

 

[T3G]

They seem to be big enough for the legacy network. Why wouldn't they be for Eglinton?

It was said further upthread that the sign was programmed in the subway style, not the legacy network style.

Unlike most European cities, Toronto is built on a grid, and most of our routes follow straight lines and major roads. There is no reason why a bus or streetcar operating on Dundas - one of those few non-straight roads - can't actually tell people that it is operating on Dundas. Or for that same reason, why we want to tell people that a bus operating on Eglinton is actually on the Leaside route, and not on Eglinton.

On shared corridors I agree, but once clear of said corridor I think there is something to be said for discarding superfluous information. Once along the parts of the 505 that are not shared with any other route, I can see the utility of having large text call out "Broadview Stn" instead of redundantly also saying that the route runs on Dundas. On the bus network especially, with their immense width signs, I would say that improving visibility could lead to some benefit.

At the very least, some routes could benefit from it, like the 900. Large one line text that says Pearson Airport would be more useful than the current two line display, saying that it's the airport Express to the airport. I have no idea what incarnation of signage the 903 is using now, either, but surely large text saying Kennedy Station would be more helpful than telling us that the service connects Kennedy with STC?

 

[Aplus23]

Right now the transit signal light turns red 10secs before the traffic light turns red, but once a transit vehicle is approaching the transit signal will turn green for an additional 10 secs according to the YouTube page Transit thinker

 

[stevedean]

Not to stroke the rumour mill too much but the walls have come down (literally) at Yonge/Eg. This was previously boarded up.

View attachment 615029

Where exactly is this in the station? Near the north end of the concourse, when you come up the stairs from the Line 1 platform?

 

[turbanplanner]

The more information the better, to a point. Most surface riders just need to know the route number and destination, LRT and subway riders need mostly to know the direction as there aren't many ways to change the route.

But..... it's very important to me to know that my 501 car goes "To Humber" and not just "To Roncesvalles". And where routes have branches, or variables, seeing just "35F' isn't helpful... few people have memorised the A, B, C variations, and if they did, TTC may have added some new permutations. Crosstown doesn't have many of these complications but conformity has some value so why confuse people with something non-standard..

The tourist is going to be confused, regardless. I wouldn't obsess over serving their needs except in a generally helpful way.

Wayfinding never lasts long.... too good a meal ticket internally and for consultants. Regular riders adapt and the fine points work themselves out.

- Paul

I'm going to sound like an Idiot but twice now I've boarded a bus for "Broadview" and it actually just dropped me off at bridgeport health instead of Broadview station.

 

[Simeon]

Not to stroke the rumour mill too much but the walls have come down (literally) at Yonge/Eg. This was previously boarded up.

View attachment 615029

this is welcoming news. Better than the years and months of no news. Still not getting my hopes up.

 

[goodcitywhenfinished]

Not to stroke the rumour mill too much but the walls have come down (literally) at Yonge/Eg. This was previously boarded up.

View attachment 615029

Toronto’s next transit megaproject should be to finally fix the ceilings in all stations. The state of some stations is beyond embarrassing.

NYC used to be the poster child for poor SOGR but they have largely renovated the worst decaying stations. Toronto is definitely worse now.

 

[gw020]

Nope, there are trains which have this on display at times. Notably, they don't have any displays noting "Line 5".

Unless they changed and updated the destination signs recently.

It may have been '5 Kennedy' too but I definitely remember seeing the number 5

 

[KevinT]

Well whats the difference between 5 Kennedy and 43 Kennedy?

About 38.

 

[Coolibop]

Right now the transit signal light turns red 10secs before the traffic light turns red, but once a transit vehicle is approaching the transit signal will turn green for an additional 10 secs according to the YouTube page Transit thinker

Assuming you're referring to this video, that's not quite what was said. Here is direct from the YouTube transcript:

7:59
...the City of Toronto has decided not to give Line 5 full transit signal priority. Instead of ensuring Line 5 trains, which will carry a max of roughly 400 people, never get stuck at red lights, the city is only giving the line partial signal priority. This means that if a light is green, and an LRV is approaching, the light will be held green for an extra 10 seconds. With transit signals already activated they all currently turn red 10 seconds before the regular traffic lights turn red, so I’m interested to see if the extra 10 seconds will even have an impact on the actual light cycle.

It's the first I've heard of detail about the signal priority...Am I to understand they only get the above 10 second extension if running behind schedule (this is what was originally communicated)?