Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[sche]

I think a lot of ppl are overstating the street section of the LRT. The only issue I see is that short bunch of stops in the golden mile section. I think one of those stops aren't needed. Other than that, it's going to be more comfortable and faster to go along Eglinton compared to being on a bus for that trip and that's the most important thing for me when it comes to mass transit. Is it more comfortable and faster than a bus.

If a being more comfortable and faster than mixed traffic bus is our benchmark for our multibillion dollar transit projects, then we have really lost hope.

Literally anything is more comfortable and faster than a mixed traffic bus. If "is it more comfortable and faster than a bus" is the "most important thing" about mass transit, a PRT monorail gadgetbahn, fake BRT, or American style modern streetcar line would all satisfy those standards.

The *only* thing we should be considering when it comes to new transit projects is what project contributes to the best transit system (in terms of reliability, speed, ridership, and comfort, in more or less that order) with the best value for money.

 

[crs1026]

Fun fact: Tunnelling began June 5, 2013. Target completion date at that time was 2020.

- Paul

 

[toronto647]

Fun fact: Tunnelling began June 5, 2013. Target completion date at that time was 2020.

- Paul

To be fair 2020 could mean December 2020. So realistically it as delayed a maximum of about 2 years. Which in all honesty is not that bad.

All the landowners I have been speaking to are laughing cause their property values have gone up crazy and all the people who have bought into pre-constructions are laughing as well. I spoke to a gentlemen who bought 3 units at Aspen Ridge Crosstown Project for 800 p/sqf (mid 2019) is now $1400 in the new release. Also Ontario Line will be coming soon and once people realize it is coming values will shoot up on the eastern portion of the line between Laird to Warden. For the investor he said he doesn't care how long it takes to be built because his pre-cons will keep appreciating as long as shovels are in the ground and people realize new transport are coming.

The second wave of shock for Eglinton will be coming in the next 2 years once people realize Ontario Line will be coming to Don Mills and Eglinton. Gentrification is coming like crazy on Eglinton and is only going to become worse as the EGLRT West Extension and Ontario Line start taking shape. Good luck to renters living on Eglinton get ready for your rents to go through the roof.

 

[TossYourJacket]

Construction did start in 2011 with a tunneling contact... but that contact ended long ago. The stations they are finishing now probably only started construction in 2017 or so.

Sorry, should have been clearer that I meant their comment about it opening in 2023, as that seemed like an assertation with no actual proof beyond "cus I feel it's true". But yeah, this thing has been under construction forever, for sure.

 

[TossYourJacket]

Why would construction on stations start so late? It makes no sense! Build them at the same time!

IIRC they build the tunnel and then dig down to it and remove the sections of tunnel where the stations go. So presumably, they waited until the entire tunnel was done to start building stations. Now what would make more sense is to build the stations as soon as the TBMs have passed the relevant section, but government projects often move in mysterious ways.

 

[nfitz]

Why would construction on stations start so late? It makes no sense! Build them at the same time!

Provincial cash flows.

Fun fact: Tunnelling began June 5, 2013. Target completion date at that time was 2020.

They started issuing contracts in 2010. Including the purchase of the TBMs.

Tunnel construction started in 2011, when the started digging the west portal near Black Creek.

Ford, McGuinty get up-close look at Eglinton LRT construction

The Premier and the Mayor pulled on rubber boots and donned hard hats Wednesday morning out at Keelesdale Park, where crews are digging a giant hole from whence to …

nationalpost.com

 

[crs1026]

All the landowners I have been speaking to are laughing cause their property values have gone up crazy and all the people who have bought into pre-constructions are laughing as well. I spoke to a gentlemen who bought 3 units at Aspen Ridge Crosstown Project for 800 p/sqf (mid 2019) is now $1400 in the new release. Also Ontario Line will be coming soon and once people realize it is coming values will shoot up on the eastern portion of the line between Laird to Warden. For the investor he said he doesn't care how long it takes to be built because his pre-cons will keep appreciating as long as shovels are in the ground and people realize new transport are coming.

The second wave of shock for Eglinton will be coming in the next 2 years once people realize Ontario Line will be coming to Don Mills and Eglinton. Gentrification is coming like crazy on Eglinton and is only going to become worse as the EGLRT West Extension and Ontario Line start taking shape. Good luck to renters living on Eglinton get ready for your rents to go through the roof.

And commercial rents will rise in synch with property values.

It has been a painful decade for businesses along Eglinton - but in fact, once the contract to build was signed, it was the death knell for many of these businesses. Redevelopment and gentrification will force them to go elsewhere.

Having them struggle along with construction blocking access to their front doors was just salt in the wound.

- Paul

 

[W. K. Lis]

Why would construction on stations start so late? It makes no sense! Build them at the same time!

They don't build houses or high-rise buildings before the foundations. The foundations have to built first, along with the utilities that feed it. The foundations have to "cure" first, after they are poured The tunnels are also the foundations, and have to be built first.

 

[Voltz]

Why would construction on stations start so late? It makes no sense! Build them at the same time!

When the project was first funded, it was to start opening in phases starting in 2015 or so. Then Metrolinx took it over and the province pushed back the timeline to delay spending, and also cancelled the section west of Mount Dennis, which has now come back with a $2 Billion cost increase.

 

[whatever]

Why would construction on stations start so late? It makes no sense! Build them at the same time!

That's more or less impossible. The TBMs wouldn't be able to get themselves through a pre-excavated station. The station headwalls need to be built first, then the TBMs burrow through them, then the station box can be excavated, the tunnel liners through the station can be removed, and then the station can be built back up out of the hole. The stations that they're finishing now are largely ones where the tunneling also finished later.

Unless you want to do away with tunneling. Which, sure, might be a conversation, but the depth of the line plus the effort to minimize surface-impact led us to where we are. If the Ontario Line north up Don Mills were to end up underground I could see cut-and-cover being an option just because of how wide the road allowance is, how many fewer businesses would be impacted, and so on.

 

[Steve X]

That's more or less impossible. The TBMs wouldn't be able to get themselves through a pre-excavated station. The station headwalls need to be built first, then the TBMs burrow through them, then the station box can be excavated, the tunnel liners through the station can be removed, and then the station can be built back up out of the hole. The stations that they're finishing now are largely ones where the tunneling also finished later.

Unless you want to do away with tunneling. Which, sure, might be a conversation, but the depth of the line plus the effort to minimize surface-impact led us to where we are. If the Ontario Line north up Don Mills were to end up underground I could see cut-and-cover being an option just because of how wide the road allowance is, how many fewer businesses would be impacted, and so on.

How? Let's look at how the TYSSE was constructed. The stations were being excavated while the TBMs are being excavating. The TYSSE TBMs and the Crosstown TBMs were both operating at the same time in fact. TYSSE started with preconstruction in 2008, boring started in 2011 and completed in 2013, the 8.6km extension opened in 2017. This Crosstown started preconstruction in 2011, boring in 2013 and completed in 2016. The line with a 10km tunnel might open in 2022.

The TYSSE didn't have headwalls built like the Crosstown. Stations boxes were excavated before the arrival of the TBMs. Once the TBM arrives and breaks through the headwall, they were disassembled and relocated to the other end of the station box. If they really don't want to disassemble and reassemble, they could just move it like they did at Eglinton West. The only difference is the Crosstown has more stations and located in a more challenging environment. So there would be more effort in moving the TBMs. The SEM constructed stations at Oakwood and Laird would not been possible till after the completion of the tunnels. Additional TBMs could been ordered to speed up the project.

If ML built this line like the TYSSE, they would have all station excavated before 2016, not 2020. The line would have opened in 2018/19.

If ML actually wants to build Eg West quickly, they could have ordered 4 TBMs and tunnel from both Renforth and Scarlett to Kipling. Station box excavation and tunneling could start now and complete in 2023/24. The extension could open as early as 2027/28 instead of 30/31. They are only digging 4 stations.

 

[The REAL]

That is like what, 12, 13 years of construction?!

I believe so. I passed through the Eglinton east part where the underground stations are. The construction looks very incomplete with cranes still installed. I believe this will open early 2022.

 

[smallspy]

That's more or less impossible. The TBMs wouldn't be able to get themselves through a pre-excavated station. The station headwalls need to be built first, then the TBMs burrow through them, then the station box can be excavated, the tunnel liners through the station can be removed, and then the station can be built back up out of the hole. The stations that they're finishing now are largely ones where the tunneling also finished later.

This is not true. There are several of cases - I can think of a handful in Russia and eastern Europe - where the TBMs used in the construction of a new line were operated through the station box after its excavation on the way to the next section of tunnel to be bored. Hell, there are even videos of this event happening online.

It's a bit unorthodox sure, but it's certainly not impossible.

Dan

 

[cplchanb]

This is not true. There are several of cases - I can think of a handful in Russia and eastern Europe - where the TBMs used in the construction of a new line were operated through the station box after its excavation on the way to the next section of tunnel to be bored. Hell, there are even videos of this event happening online.

It's a bit unorthodox sure, but it's certainly not impossible.

Dan

Since when have things been orthodox in Russia lol. In all seriousness though, tbms don't need to eat earth to move forward. They're just powered forward by hydraulic pistons correct?

 

[smallspy]

In all seriousness though, tbms don't need to eat earth to move forward. They're just powered forward by hydraulic pistons correct?

Basically, yes. The vast majority of TBMs jack themselves through the tunnel they've bored by hydraulic pistons. In a lot of cases where the TBMs also install tunnel linings as part of their forward progress, they will push against these linings.

Dan