Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[EnviroTO]

Don't read, listen, or look at the news?

Don't read or look at the posts you are responding to?

Nowhere in that does it say Line 1 will close. Queen street will close but that is a different thing than a subway line. A subway line has a big impact, and a street closure has a local impact... especially since they plan on routing the streetcars around the construction with new and reconstructed tracks.

 

[syn]

My prediction is that you're going to hear a lot more people having a problem with it after the line opens. The general public doesn't pay attention to the specifics of how a line is designed while it's being built. They don't care if it's elevated or at the surface or in a tunnel. But they do have a general idea of how rapid transit operates. We're probably going to see a lot of complaints and bad press when people realize that the expensive new line on the subway map whose construction disrupted the area for more than a decade has to stop at red lights and wait for cars to turn left. The news story practically writes itself.

People love to complain.

Ultimately this is going to be a boon to the area, especially as density increases and there's a downtown connection implemented at the Science Centre.

 

[W. K. Lis]

The majority of the red and blue lines in Calgary have them too. And the Capital and Metro lines in Edmonton. The same could have been done on Eglinton through Scarborough.


My prediction is that you're going to hear a lot more people having a problem with it after the line opens. The general public doesn't pay attention to the specifics of how a line is designed while it's being built. They don't care if it's elevated or at the surface or in a tunnel. But they do have a general idea of how rapid transit operates. We're probably going to see a lot of complaints and bad press when people realize that the expensive new line on the subway map whose construction disrupted the area for more than a decade has to stop at red lights and wait for cars to turn left. The news story practically writes itself.

Depends if we get a true "transit czar" who has the power to force changes to get "true transit priority", crossing gates, and laws that side towards public transit and pedestrians instead of the almighty automobile.

 

[Transportfan]

Honestly, yes

Sure, lets bubblewrap everything and make people even more complacent.

 

[Bordercollie]

Let's just hope no trains get buried while they are excavating underneath rumbling trains.

I think they installed those support columns underneath all the GO train tracks at Union during off peak times.

So what happens to the pocket track if they move the platform forward? Can they move the pocket track further north?

They could build another track before Eglinton to the south if they dug into the embankment.

 

[ARG1]

Should crossing gates be installed along Queen' Quay, Spadina Avenue, St. Clair Avenue West, The Queensway streetcar right-of-ways, and the RapidTO bus lanes?

There's a major difference between those and Eglinton. The former are purely local streetcar routes that people ride for a few blocks, the latter is a line people can ride on for several kilometers as a longer distance suburban route.

 

[MrGoose]

Sure, lets bubblewrap everything and make people even more complacent.

What does this even mean?

How is adding crossing gates to ensure that public transit can travel unencumbered by automotive traffic going to make people more complacent.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

Unless we're talking at grade crossing with boom gates... it kinda does.

There's a major difference between those and Eglinton. The former are purely local streetcar routes that people ride for a few blocks, the latter is a line people can ride on for several kilometers as a longer distance suburban route.

What does this even mean?

How is adding crossing gates to ensure that public transit can travel unencumbered by automotive traffic going to make people more complacent.

Crossing gates aren't relly neded on an LR%T line except for certain cercomstances like for example if it transfers to a existing or former railroad right of way or it cross trafic in a way that is against the normal flow of traffic. There are some other exceptions though like for example in Calgary and as someone mentioned in Chicago however, those are more like a subway crossing the road and need protection to cross it because of the size of the vehicle. The egling crosstown is going to travel with the flow of traffic. The only place in the existing TTC streetcar network that should have any sort of markings or gates should be Queens Quay from Sapdian to the portal and when they build the section further east it should have them too. Even if they don't put up barriers or crossbucks they should at leat have a sign that tell drivers that there is a tram/streetcar line beside them and that streets that cross it (Kitchener has signs like that on it's street running section)

 

[smallspy]

So what happens to the pocket track if they move the platform forward? Can they move the pocket track further north?

They could build another track before Eglinton to the south if they dug into the embankment.

The pocket track is not going anywhere. Even with the platform shift, it will still remain usable.

Dan

 

[Transportfan]

What does this even mean?

How is adding crossing gates to ensure that public transit can travel unencumbered by automotive traffic going to make people more complacent.

Are you referring to safety or what? I thought you meant for crossing gates for pedestrians so they won't jaywalk (not LRT specific)...which they could still do by ducking under them.

I was generalizing actually, in the sense that airbags in cars may make drivers more careless as they make driving safer.

 

[Undead]

I was generalizing actually, in the sense that airbags in cars may make drivers more careless as they make driving safer

I agree that we're bubble wrapping our society in safety too much, but it's more of a mental/psychological thing.

As for the car safety example, airbags, seatbelts, crumple zones, head restraints, electronic stability control and so on have drastically reduced per capita deaths and injuries even as overall miles driven have soared.

IMHO not a good example with which to critique the overly safety obsessed aspects of our society.

 

[Transportfan]

IMHO not a good example with which to critique the overly safety obsessed aspects of our society.

Not the best example I know.. I was thinking more about stuff like "Share the road" signs on tiny laneways with slow/barely any traffic or bike lanes (with excessive signage) on side streets that make the streets look uglier and are only put in because cities simply extrapolate from busy arterials and don't think things through.

 

[superelevation]

There are reasons:
1. It is not as wide as required. On St.Clair and Eglinton East in the Golden Mile you can fit four lanes, plus left turning lanes, plus transit ROW, plus sidewalks. On central Eglinton you would need to sacrifice something because only five lanes fit and many properties will be using the curb lane for pick-up/drop-off... something that definitely doesn't happen in the Golden Mile.
2. Intersections that can't be closed are closer together. This means more stopping and slower service. The service starts to be more like a St.Clair streetcar than an LRT service.
3. Risk of pedestrian conflicts and congestion impacts. There are far more people walking around near Yonge and Eglinton and that means the drivers need to operate slower. Traffic congestion is higher increasing the likelihood of delay getting through intersections.

These reasons feel pretty weak, if we wanted speed we wouldn't go with LRT, and the plan for the surface section appears to be inundating it with people.

Elevated lines are hideous. Even the RT is only elevated where needed and only because you cannot have heavy rail interacting with traffic if you want to keep it at subway speeds..

As someone who lives near and travels through the Golden Mile regularly I would be vehemently against Elevated lines. This is Toronto, not Chicago.

As yes, Chicago - the epitome of modern transit (that was mostly constructed close to 100 years ago)

True. For some reason we think it's a great idea to build a subway extension to one of those places.

I would've had no problem with an elevated line here, but I understand why they decided to build a street level solution. A little surprising people still have so much of a problem with it. We can certainly point to a lot of cities with elevated rail, but there also many cities that have street level LRTs. I'm sure people will find this line quite convenient.

Surprising that people would complain that we aren't building a high quality system? Most place that have street level LRT either 1) have poor transit performance like in the US 2) have extensive subway systems that make the surface transit a nice addition - but not the thing carrying all the weight

 

[Aplus23]

I think a lot of ppl are overstating the street section of the LRT. The only issue I see is that short bunch of stops in the golden mile section. I think one of those stops aren't needed. Other than that, it's going to be more comfortable and faster to go along Eglinton compared to being on a bus for that trip and that's the most important thing for me when it comes to mass transit. Is it more comfortable and faster than a bus.

 

[syn]

Surprising that people would complain that we aren't building a high quality system? Most place that have street level LRT either 1) have poor transit performance like in the US 2) have extensive subway systems that make the surface transit a nice addition - but not the thing carrying all the weight

The idea that this isn't high quality is baffling to me. It's a relatively small portion of the system in a relatively low density area...and it'll be connected to at least two subway at each end of the above ground portion.

There's already a subway extension going directly to STC.