Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[cplchanb]

Idk how I feel about this. Its nice that we're getting it open earlier, but it really sucks that arguably the most important station will be delayed. At least its better than delaying the whole thing by an additional 3 months.

i would welcome this. To hold everything back because of 1 station is short sighted given how desperately we need the service to start. they could run more 34 short turn buses temporarily to cope with the influx on the bordering stations

 

[toronto647]

New report says the Eglinton Crosstown LRT could open five months late — and without its Eglinton stop

To be honest personally I am overjoyed by this news. Looking at it the half cup full approach at least the Eglinton Lrt will open partially in early 2022 and fully in late 2022. I was expecting them to announce a delay into 2023 lol TBH anything before September 2023 is a blessing as thats whats I am still guessing as the full operational opening. (who knows what other delays will happen and problems during the testing phase)

 

[Northern Light]

Lets note here that Metrolinx has not accepted the new schedule yet.

So whether or not this is what happens can be filed as TBD.

I'm not certain myself on whether opening the east segment; east of Yonge, makes sense w/o a proper transfer in place. Assuming buses are withdrawn to a large degree, that could make for some pretty chaotic transfers; and the intersection could be a worse mess than it has been during construction.

I'm not sure off--hand where the cross-overs are; but the option of running service that would likely be bound for Eglinton West/Cedarvale earlier sounds reasonable to me.

Running service that is bound for Eglinton, but w/passengers not able to make a clean transfer (or perhaps not egress at all) seems questionable.

Lets keep in mind, that TTC is supposed to staff those trains; and the staff will have to come off the bus network; so its unclear to me how many surplus staff the TTC would have to run overlapping services.

 

[NoahB]

They might actually be able to get away with asking people to transfer at street level. It is a major inconvenience, sure, but the ride to there will be much more comfortable than the bus (as well as the potholed roads)

From The Star article linked above:

Jenkins said Crosslinx hopes to complete most of the Eglinton LRT stop by May 2022, but the direct connection to the subway wouldn’t be finished until the fall of that year. In the interim, LRT vehicles would stop at the station but passengers would have to transfer by exiting the LRT stop and entering Eglinton subway station at street level.

Otherwise, if the station is completely closed, then it would have a cumbersome bus transfer that nobody will find acceptable compared to a single bus to Yonge.

Lets note here that Metrolinx has not accepted the new schedule yet.

So whether or not this is what happens can be filed as TBD.

I'm not certain myself on whether opening the east segment; east of Yonge, makes sense w/o a proper transfer in place. Assuming buses are with drawn to a large degree, that could make for some pretty chaotic transfers; and the intersection could be a worse mess than it has been during construction.

I'm not sure off--hand where the cross-overs are; but the option of running service that would likely be bound for Eglinton West/Cedarvale earlier sounds reasonable to me.

It might not be easy to terminate the route at Cedarvale because the crossover apparently is after the station. I doubt that they will phase the line in segments if all segments are ready except the stations. Trains can bypass the incomplete stations and the city will have to continue running busses on the route until construction is complete.


For the crossovers I found this on the crosstown page:

 

[Northern Light]

They might actually be able to get away with asking people to transfer at street level. It is a major inconvenience, sure, but the ride to there will be much more comfortable than the bus (as well as the potholed roads)

From The Star article linked above:

Otherwise, if the station is completely closed, then it would have a cumbersome bus transfer that nobody will find acceptable compared to a single bus to Yonge.



It might not be easy to terminate the route at Cedarvale because the crossover apparently is after the station. I doubt that they will phase the line in segments if all segments are ready except the stations. Trains can bypass the incomplete stations and the city will have to continue running busses on the route until construction is complete.


For the crossovers I found this on the crosstown page:
View attachment 273597

TY for that post.

So its very feasible to run an Avenue to Mt. Dennis service in the west, and leave the buses in the east until Eglinton is ready.

 

[ADRM]

They might actually be able to get away with asking people to transfer at street level. It is a major inconvenience, sure, but the ride to there will be much more comfortable than the bus (as well as the potholed roads)

From The Star article linked above:
Otherwise, if the station is completely closed, then it would have a cumbersome bus transfer that nobody will find acceptable compared to a single bus to Yonge.

Speculating here, but when I read that article I assumed it meant that the trains could run through Eglinton station but not load or unload passengers at it, which would present fewer problems than requiring a multi-modal transfer of some sort.

 

[TRONto]

Quite a dramatic change for the city if Eglinton and Finch LRT are opening within about a year of each other.

 

[W. K. Lis]

With Eglinton Station almost unavailable, riders could use Kennedy Station to transfer to Line 2 and Cedarvale Station to transfer to Line 1.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Speculating here, but when I read that article I assumed it meant that the trains could run through Eglinton station but not load or unload passengers at it, which would present fewer problems than requiring a multi-modal transfer of some sort.

That's how I understood it as well.

I imagine you would see a bus bridge between Avenue and Mount Pleasant to allow for transfers, but most people would instead transfer at Cedarvale and use that line to go downtown. I could see a lot of people just walking over from Mount Pleasant as well for the summer, it's not a super long walk.

The question would be what % of riders would be impacted by that lack of transfer and whether it would be better to force those users to use a bus bridge for it in order to allow other users to use the new LRT, or if it's better to instead just keep everyone on buses for 6 months.

 

[Northern Light]

If the Eglinton LRT station can still be serviced (minus the direct connection to the subway), why would they run a turnback service? Would mean reduced frequencies to be able to fit in the turnback maneuver, not providing service to Scarborough which would politically look bad, and potential financial penalties for Crosslinx to run the degraded service.

Full service would arrive within a year.

The issue is the problems created by a surface transfer.

We're not talking about a few dozen people at a time.

We're talking many hundreds, maybe more (trains from 2 directions).

If you've used the main entrance to the existing Eglinton Station, you'll know its extremely busy in rush hour today (pre-Covid anyways)

I'm not sure it could handle that influx safely.

Nor the intersection above.

Perhaps it could...........

 

[smallspy]

Full service would arrive within a year.

The issue is the problems created by a surface transfer.

We're not talking about a few dozen people at a time.

We're talking many hundreds, maybe more (trains from 2 directions).

If you've used the main entrance to the existing Eglinton Station, you'll know its extremely busy in rush hour today (pre-Covid anyways)

I'm not sure it could handle that influx safely.

Nor the intersection above.

Perhaps it could...........

It wouldn't be an ideal situation by any stretch of the imagination, but I don't think it's quite as bad as you fear it will be.

The main entrance for the LRT will sit immediately to the west of and adjacent to the building at 2200 Yonge St. - the distance from doorway to doorway will be maybe 125 feet. There will be no need for passengers to cross the street, or even any driveways. The bigger issue will be the climb of 25-or-so meters from the LRT platforms to ground level, and then dropping back down the 12 meters - plus getting through the fareline - to access the subway.

Yes, the stairwells in that building are not particularly wide, but the one saving grace is that the climb out from the LRT will thin out the crowds making the transfer. And hopefully by that date, the other accesses on the other corners of the intersection will all be opening, allowing those getting to the station on foot to get to the fareline through other, not-as-crowded routes.

Dan

 

[NoahB]

I can't wait to see what Metrolinx's decision would be.

On one hand, they can 'hold the consortium accountable' and try to get money out of the delays while keeping the line shut until it's complete contractually. On the other hand, it could accept a phased opening and open the line with some key stations missing but can pretend they minimized delays.

I think the phased approach is best as transit patronage is down anyway, and the bigger trains will help people distance. The TTC will also get some real-world practice time before traffic picks up. (That is unless we have an Ottawa LRT situation where they opened before the line was really ready just to say 'we did it')

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

On one hand, they can 'hold the consortium accountable' and try to get money out of the delays while keeping the line shut until it's complete contractually. On the other hand, it could accept a phased opening and open the line with some key stations missing but can pretend they minimized delays.

What's the point of P3 if you don't transfer the risk? It sets a bad precedent signalling to everyone that you aren't serious about it.

AoD

 

[rbt]

What's the point of P3 if you don't transfer the risk? It sets a bad precedent signalling to everyone that you aren't serious about it.

This is Metrolinx's last P3 ever anyway. Union Station Enhancement, GO Expansion, and Ontario Line vendors have all said they won't bid on that type of tender for Ontario transit projects. "Alliance" bids are the new thing (much more partnership oriented) and that has Metrolinx keeping much of the risk.

 

[NoahB]

What's the point of P3 if you don't transfer the risk? It sets a bad precedent signalling to everyone that you aren't serious about it.

AoD

You end up with an Ontario Line / RER situation where no one wants to bid.
(I do prefer that P3s are killed though. Never made sense to me that the gov would ask the private sector to borrow on higher rates then give them the profits instead of saving it)