Toronto Corus Quay | ?m | 8s | Waterfront Toronto | Diamond Schmitt

Re: Public Process?

There was a ~25 storey office tower approved for that site years ago, along with a 37 storey hotel.
 
Re: Public Process?

Is there existing density rights for 18 York St? Perhaps this proposal falls within those rights and just needs some minor variances.
 
Re: Public Process?

Architects slug it out over 'Symphony' design

Peter Kuitenbrouwer
National Post


Thursday, April 12, 2007


The waterfront's design review panel is a big step forward in city-building. And as theatrics, it can be showstopping -- as it was yesterday, when architect Jack Diamond lost his cool.

Nine architects and planners gathered to scrutinize the Diamond and Schmitt Architects building for the Toronto Economic Development Corp., on Queens Quay next to the Redpath sugar refinery.

The panel was, it's fair to say, underwhelmed by the "Project Symphony" building, which resembles two shoe boxes with an upright empty paper tower roll plunked beside them.

(The project has a tenant, which TEDCO won't reveal; we learned yesterday that it is a "media company.")

Completing his presentation, Mr. Diamond asked, "No applause?" No. No applause.

"I've used the term before, I'll use it again: I don't think it's orgasmic," said Paul Bedford, the former chief planner of Toronto.

"Are there strategies to make the building more bold?" asked Tania Bortolotto, an architect.

"One of the strengths of Mr. Diamond's work is that it's very modest," said Peter Clewes, another architect.

"I get concerned, Jack, whether you really believe in engaging the public realm in your buildings," said Janet Rosenberg, a landscape architect.

The harshest words came from Siamak Hariri, an architect known for designing the Schulich School of Business at York University.

"Do we want to see something special on this site, or is this just another site?" Mr. Hariri asked. "Do we want something that we might consider would have magic, that would take our breath away? Or dare we say it, that the world might notice?"

(Certainly, the location, next to the Jarvis Street slip, is a spectacular one; this week the Puffin, a huge green sugar ship, bobbed there at anchor, having unloaded its cargo into Redpath's raw sugar shed.)

"I wish that it went much further," Mr. Hariri continued. "That it cantilevered on the water. We should raise the bar higher."

Then Mr. Diamond got up, returned to the podium, and got mad.

"I'll tell you where I take exception," he said. "There is a philosophical difference." Then, addressing Mr. Hariri directly: "We could not be more diametrically opposed. You do not take a shape and cram a use into it. The idea to get something cantilevered: that speaks to me of provincial insecurity.

"I couldn't disagree with you more, Siamak. You do your buildings your way, I'll do my buildings my way, and we'll see in history which ones last the test of time."

Yowza. You'd think Mr. Diamond, after building projects all over the world, would be a little more thick skinned.

Still, in the end, Bruce Kuwabara, who heads this design review panel, sought to paper over the differences and keep the project moving forward. He summed up the panel's comments as approval for the direction of Project Symphony, while suggesting that they keep working on it and come back again with a more complete scheme.

Afterward, a reporter buttonholed Mr. Kuwabara as the starving architect wolfed down a couple of chocolate chip cookies.

"But Bruce -- do you love it?" the reporter asked, apparently referring to Mr. Diamond's building, not the cookies.

"Love is too strong a word," Mr. Kuwabara replied. "The panel wants to be seen as encouraging of Jack Diamond. I'm a Buddhist. Better to travel hopefully than never to arrive."

"When you're Japanese you can never say no," he added. "You have to have a degree of empathy for the proponent."

One problem here, he conceded, is TEDCO's decision to award the project to Mr. Diamond, rather than hold an architectural competition, which, he said, would have "set the bar high."

And Mr. Kuwabara added, "If it doesn't continue to get better and better, then I'll be the first one to say so."

Mr. Hariri retorted, "The problem with our city is that there's a kind of polite mediocrity."

Yes, that's often true. Still, watching brand-name architects slug it out in public, in the interest of better architecture is a remarkably refreshing development.

Will it improve the city's built form? It certainly can't hurt.
 
Re: Public Process?

Only modesty survives the test of time? I think the pyramids, the Eiffel Tower and even new City Hall would have something to say about that.
 
Re: Public Process?

The problem with our city is that there's a kind of polite mediocrity.
Click to expand...

Would have to agree.

Sounds like a meeting I would have loved to have witnessed.
 
Re: Public Process?

"I couldn't disagree with you more, Siamak. You do your buildings your way, I'll do my buildings my way, and we'll see in history which ones last the test of time."
Click to expand...

Well, as much as I am a fan of contextual architecture, I am sure Siamak's Baha'i temple in Santiago, when built, wil last the test of time better than our, say, Opera House.

Who is he to force his ideals on our collective vision?

AoD
 
Re: Public Process?

"I've used the term before, I'll use it again: I don't think it's orgasmic,"
Click to expand...
Talk about raising the bar, sheesh.
 
Re: Public Process?

Funny and true. But that would be a damn nice bar to have to reach.

An international competition to design an office building, would have at least presented us with some interesting choices. But TEDCO seems intent on getting a 'deal' done, as opposed to using the site and opportunity for something with some 'magic'.
 
Re: Public Process?

alklay:

I have no problem with them not having a design competition - I have an issue with them willfully ignoring the requirements of the site and proceeded to put forth some second rate proposal, then went on to berate the rest for not knowing better.

Come to think it, I'd think Hariri Pontarini would do a far better job for the site.

AoD
 
Re: Public Process?

It seems to me that there are currently two visions of Toronto battling it out....the old - personified by Jack Diamond - conservative, cautious, uninspired...I think he is a throwback to that old style of T.O. that actually started to become obsolete beginning sometime in the 70's.

and the new vision, personified by folks like Libeskind, Alsop & Clewes, among many others - adventurous, risk-taking, inspired....their vision treats the idea of architecture in City of Toronto much more seriously, reflects the new multicultural dynamic, and recognizes our place on the world stage.

I hope this doesn't sound pompous - I actually believe that Toronto today is in a state of rapidly becoming something special, way outside of what it previously was.

It's time to let guys like Diamond go, imo - because, as competent as he and his firm is, they fail to grasp the new reality. It would be a shame if they are allowed to prolong the old, mediocre vision of TO, due to politics and cronyism.

my 2 cents
 
Re: Public Process?

EEk. That is strong.

I like Diamond's work. His academic buildings are great (a lot of bang for the buck) and his Jerusalem city hall is fantastic. Heck, I even like the loading dock to the opera house. So I certainly cannot generalize about him or his work.

But that being said, I think this particular site and opportunity may demand and require more than what he is presently proposing (and is willing to design).
 
Re: Public Process?

Claiming that Siamak's Baha'i temple will stand the test of time better than Jack's opera house is surely a classic example of comparing apples with oranges. They both serve different purposes, built for different users, and are located in different locations within different cultures.

Actually, yyzer, it was Diamond and his generation who changed things for the better in the '60's and '70's when the development industry ran things, blockbusting neighbourhoods for highrises was the norm, and citizens had less say in what Toronto looked like and how it functioned.
 
Re: Public Process?

babel:

I am doing that on purpose - ignoring the context so as to strip down the projects on design merit alone. Not for a moment do I think the Opera House is a bad building for its' context - but architecturally, it is unremarkable.

By the same token, if one chose to apply the context of the waterfront site and its' demands , wouldn't the logic that Jack applied to justify the qualities of his project falls apart?

re: history

Ironically, he is being heavy handed with his intepretation of what the site should be, while trying to bypass a vision, that like it or not, have had public input.

AoD
 
Re: Public Process?

So now we've had a star architect roundly and publically pilloried. What are the odds that this is going to make him - or anyone associated with the project - more amenable to changing the design?
 
re:public process

While I agree with what you say about Diamond in the past, Building Babel, I would add that he has now become his old adversary. His recent work is less than inspired and it's time for him to stand aside. He has become part of the business/government establishment that is primarily interested in profit and revenue and believes that it is above public sentiment and even public bodies intended to improve matters aesthetically.

I read the newpaper articles reproduced above and I feel so discouraged even though I know that politics always prevail. I see both TEDCO, Miller, and Diamond acting in such arrogant ways.They get angry with the design panel as though they find it shocking that they should be challenged. Aesthetic considerations and the public good are fine as long as they get in their way. It takes years for most projects for the public benefit to get ahead because of bureacratic hurdles, but a project of dubious benefit in any way is getting full mayoral attention so it can start up within months. We deserve better municipal government than this.
 
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