Toronto Concord Park Place: Ethennonnhawahstihnen' Community Centre | 18.9m | 4s | City of Toronto | MJMA

interchange42 said:
I'm afraid that for a name that won't be used that often by that many people, will be as much a barrier as it will the gesture of reconciliation that it's meant as. Yes, we need more reminders of whose land we live on… but even an English word that long would have people raised in this language staring blankly at it. This is not going to be an easy addition to the local vocab. I expect a shorter nickname of some kind will develop in due course.

42
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I disagree. We don't live on anyone's land. Nobody owns land, but if anyone has a right to the land, it's the people who fought and won the land. It is what it is, there's no need to name places the majority of people can not pronounce.
 
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Looking into Fitness Studio (3F) from Walking Track (4F). Roof Top Terrace at the back.

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Roof Top Terrace (3F). Sink and faucet on the other side of the planter.

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Play Space (3F)

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Full kitchen (2F)
 
khris said:
I disagree. We don't live on anyone's land. Nobody owns land, but if anyone has a right to the land, it's the people who fought and won the land. It is what it is, there's no need to name places the majority of people can not pronounce.
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Er...with comments like these is giving me more appreciation for the name. Just saying...
 
The problem with the name is pretty simple. Our official languages are English and French and this name is in neither. 99.99% of the population cannot pronounce it, but since some politicians are virtue signaling, I guess it makes it okay?!
 
I'm for using Indigenous words, but without providing pronunciation help on signage the city risks people giving it an unfortunate nickname. Most people don't know how to accurately pronounce Wendat names and we can't pretend that people will just magically figure it out.

I'm sure it's been mentioned before on the thread, but for those, like me, who had to look up the pronunciation, it is Ethennonnhawahstihnen’ (pronounced Etta-nonna wasti-nuh).
 
I should also note that it doesn't just signify the land, but commemorates a village that existed about a kilometre away. This village is from 1300 CE. If you get worked up about Toronto's nineteenth century buildings getting torn down, you can't get too upset about a historical marker for an archeological site from 700 years ago.
 
Parkdalian said:
I'm for using Indigenous words, but without providing pronunciation help on signage the city risks people giving it an unfortunate nickname. Most people don't know how to accurately pronounce Wendat names and we can't pretend that people will just magically figure it out.

I'm sure it's been mentioned before on the thread, but for those, like me, who had to look up the pronunciation, it is Ethennonnhawahstihnen’ (pronounced Etta-nonna wasti-nuh).
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I don't think anyone would disagree with this. At the very least, it should be a learning opportunity - the name is undeniably difficult, but that doesn't negate its importance (which I think you've summarized well above).
 
khris said:
I disagree. We don't live on anyone's land. Nobody owns land, but if anyone has a right to the land, it's the people who fought and won the land. It is what it is, there's no need to name places the majority of people can not pronounce.
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Take by force and then it's rightfully yours? OK, Vladimir. If we're to successfully co-exist together and move forward as a country, reconciliation needs to happen. That starts will acknowledging past misdeeds. We will never be able to put these things behind us with attitudes like yours.
 
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khris said:
I disagree. We don't live on anyone's land. Nobody owns land, but if anyone has a right to the land, it's the people who fought and won the land. It is what it is, there's no need to name places the majority of people can not pronounce.
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Nobody fought and/or won it though. It was "purchased" by a series of treaties. Toronto sits on the "traditional territories" of the Anishinaabeg, Huron-Wendat, Haudenosaunee and Ojibway/Chippewa but people claiming ancestry in those groups do not "own" the land. They negotiated for certain rights to the land when Toronto Purchase was signed in 1805. Complicating matters is that the negotiated terms of most of Canada's treaties have not been honoured by the Crown and the European legal fictions of "property" and "law" did not really have any direct comparables in most First Nations' traditions. So what some might call "purchase" they call bad-faith theft.

Even though there is an interest in "reconciling" with, atoning to, celebrating and empowering Canada's Aboriginal communities however, there is no realistic or widespread intention to relinquish the Crown's property interests in Canada and sign it all over to a select group of individuals with specific ethnic ancestries.

"Decolonization" is a fashionable buzz-word but with 1.2 million incoming new "colonizers" arriving in this country each year, it isn't actually going to happen.
 
Is there a respectful way of using a diminutive of Ethennonnhawahstihnen' for those who are linguistically impaired? Otherwise, I think people are just going to call it Park Pace Community Centre.
 
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That’s exactly what most will likely end up calling it. It’s what happens when our city tries but fails miserably. It’s a missed opportunity to educate and teach people how to pronounce the name. Have some plaques and a historical reference at the place to show where the name came from and why it was named this way.
 
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