Toronto/Chicago comparisons

[TheWrightStuff]

I don't get the comparisons to American cities at all, really. We don't have the grandeur and we don't have the sinkholes. If portions of Toronto like the one above resembles American sities--well, it was because they were designed by American architects or, in the case of Old City Hall, took American models as direct examples.

You might as well compare Toronto to Sao Paulo because we have a lot of concrete high-rises.

Toronto looks like a provincial 19th century industrial-era English city rearranged to suit a grid and with a lot more parking lots.

 

[ladyscraper]

My wife and I visited Chicago last month. We had a wonderful time but I'm just glad I don't live there. It's definitely a nicer place for tourists than Toronto because of all the great old architecture but the city itself seems more depressing.
My wife is from New York and now lives in Toronto. Whenever anyone asks about our trip, the very first thing she says is "the racial segregation is messed up and really disturbed me". I tend to talk about the architectural boat cruise we went on that was amazing but she can't get over that racial divide thing. I can tell that the city left a really bad impression on her.
She said that living in Toronto and New York, she got used to the idea that people could get along and live together but in Chicago it seemed backwards and wasn't working at all.

There is no way I could entertain the idea that Chicago is a better city than Toronto. Our city just works better for the people that live in it and our street life is more varied and interesting without being dangerous.

Chicago on the other hand is a far more beautiful city in the very downtown core but it all seems to come at the expense of half of their population. I will probably visit again since it's a great town for tourists but I have to wonder if Chicago would be better off if they spread some of that money around to those neighborhoods that need it instead of keeping the loop looking immaculate?

 

[Thanos]

Queen West, for some odd reason many locals seem to be proud of, are in terrible shape. I don't know why Toronto's retails have to be crammed into 100 year dilapidated two story houses (I am sure many will claim it is a "character" but for me it looks poor) It is hard to believe that's the main commercial street in the city.

So basically we should destroy historic buildings and build a bunch of Auras with 5 story mall podiums? I don't think this kind of reasoning belongs in any Canadian city.

 

[Thanos]

a great movie showcasing the scale and beauty of Chicago is Transformers 3... So awesome, and i actually happened to see them filming it in summer 2010... A great movie showcasing Toronto is.... wait... i can't think of one.... (Scott Pilgrim sorta counts, but only shows fractions of the city)

And Canada's entertainment industry is what...........1/100th the size of the US industry?
American studios aren't going to produce storylines that take place in Canada. Maybe they'll do a small budget film once a year.

 

[TheWrightStuff]

So basically we should destroy historic buildings and build a bunch of Auras with 5 story mall podiums? I don't think this kind of reasoning belongs in any Canadian city.

How about restoring those historic buildings? New York, Boston, San Fransisco and to some extent Philadelphia all have stretches of townhouses converted to shops without the strip looking tawdry or ramshackle.

 

[TheWrightStuff]

a great movie showcasing the scale and beauty of Chicago is Transformers 3... So awesome, and i actually happened to see them filming it in summer 2010... A great movie showcasing Toronto is.... wait... i can't think of one.... (Scott Pilgrim sorta counts, but only shows fractions of the city)

I don't think a movie that "showcases the beauty" of a city by smashing the hell out of it is quite what most of us have in mind...

 

[Paleo]

kkgg7, sounds like you're being " held " in Toronto against your will.

Have you seen kkgg7's other posts? If it's in or near downtown and it's not a super tall, it's a waste of space and not worth having in existence.

 

[nfitz]

I live in downtown Toronto, and even in the very core, there are vacant lots almost everywhere (eg: Queen/Church, Queen/St Patrick, Dundas East, Bloor/Church just to name a few). Outside the city core, do I even need to name them? Apparently vacant lots are not just Chicago's problem.

Are you serious? How is this even comparable? Those properties are worth millions, and will all likely be redeveloped within 5-10 years. A comparable situation would be to drive up Dufferin and see more vacant lots than houses. I don't see anything comparable in Toronto to what I see in photographs around Chicago ... with perhaps the exception of the industrial Portlands area ... but that's a very different kettle of fish.

There's always an odd empty house here and there ... but it's often left empty through some odd situation - often the mental illness of the owner, or the mismanagement by whatever organization owns it.

Speaking of poor planning, Toronto didn't exactly go a decent job either, did it? It is a mid size city yet the extent of sprawl is already frustrating. The lack of highways and efficient public transit makes its gridlock the worst on the continent.

What a bizarre comment. Have you ever travelled outside of Toronto? Toronto has one of the most efficient public transit agencies in the continent by many measures. Revenue per mile, operating cost per mile, etc. And surely the best way to reduce gridlock, is to remove highways leading to downtown.

Many of its city streets are in horrible third-world-like condition which you can't even believe are in the most wealthy city of a G7 country.

I've lived in the third world. I don't see how you can even start to compare the state of our streets to a third world nation. Why are you misleading us so?

We may criticize Chicago's urban issues all we want, however, its urban planning and architectural glamour is still a couple of notches above ours.

Acres of vacant residential areas, slums, and high crime areas? That's urban planning a couple of notches above ours? Good grief, their politicians should be in jail ... wait ... many are.

Any architectural glamour Chicago may have is very much restricted to a small part of the city, and is a function of what happened a century ago. Most people couldn't care less about such elitist niceties! Chicago is clearly a failed city on it's decline. Hopefully it recovers again ... but I just can't imagine anyone so intellectually dishonest to hold it up as a good example of urban planning!

 

[nfitz]

And Canada's entertainment industry is what...........1/100th the size of the US industry?

The rest of the US entertainment industry outside of LA and perhaps New York is 1/100th of the US industry ...

How does Toronto compare to Chicago? Say number of jobs in TV and movies in each city?

 

[Thanos]

The rest of the US entertainment industry outside of LA and perhaps New York is 1/100th of the US industry ...

How does Toronto compare to Chicago? Say number of jobs in TV and movies in each city?

I never referred to number of jobs in Toronto compared to Chicago. US studios will make shows and movies showcasing Chicago as a city. The companies don't have to be headquartered there and don't have to employ thousands of people. They'll showcase Chicago because they know americans, canadians and yes even europeans will watch those shows/movies. Whereas Canada, only recently have we seen movies and shows with our cities actually playing our cities.

 

[Thanos]

How about restoring those historic buildings? New York, Boston, San Fransisco and to some extent Philadelphia all have stretches of townhouses converted to shops without the strip looking tawdry or ramshackle.

I completely agree with you that certain buildings along Queen need some TLC. However, to completely destroy them just because they're 2-3 story buildings and build big block malls to attract high fashion and build tall buildings is not something we should be looking into. And if we do, Yonge street is better suited to this type of development then Queen.

 

[Marcanadian]

True. A city is not just its downtown, however, downtown is probably the most important part of a city. I live in downtown Toronto, and even in the very core, there are vacant lots almost everywhere (eg: Queen/Church, Queen/St Patrick, Dundas East, Bloor/Church just to name a few). Outside the city core, do I even need to name them? Apparently vacant lots are not just Chicago's problem. Speaking of poor planning, Toronto didn't exactly go a decent job either, did it? It is a mid size city yet the extent of sprawl is already frustrating. The lack of highways and efficient public transit makes its gridlock the worst on the continent. Many of its city streets are in horrible third-world-like condition which you can't even believe are in the most wealthy city of a G7 country. Queen West, for some odd reason many locals seem to be proud of, are in terrible shape. I don't know why Toronto's retails have to be crammed into 100 year dilapidated two story houses (I am sure many will claim it is a "character" but for me it looks poor) It is hard to believe that's the main commercial street in the city. Yonge st is basically a tacky looking mess. Do I even need to comment on Dundas East And Dundas West?

Toronto may not have many slums, thanks for Canada's smaller income gap. however, honestly there are very few presentable streets that I can proudly show my visiting friends (no, not Queen West, too shabby looking indeed).

About the vacant lots thing, those intersections you listed are all occupied with a structure of some kind. I saw plenty of places in Chicago with simply nothing on the land other than waste and grass. Go on Google Earth and look at Chicago's west and south sides: there are countless lots that are empty and unsightly. You don't see that so much in Toronto. Yes, there are vacant buildings, but most of our space is fully used to its capacity.

I think if I was an outsider, I would rather visit Chicago, but live in Toronto. Our quality of life just seems a whole lot better. Our subway system pales in comparison to Chicago's, but Chicago was once the fastest growing city in the world. Toronto is a young city that was overshadowed by Montreal for large periods of its life. We do need a better transit system, but at least I can take the bus to any corner of the city and feel safe while doing so.

 

[steveve]

I think if I was an outsider, I would rather visit Chicago, but live in Toronto. Our quality of life just seems a whole lot better.

word... live in Toronto, tour another city. And yes, I do have some bias considering i've lived here all my life, but even still, i don't think anyones arguing how liveable this city is (minus the traffic.... which is 3rd world country bad!)
.. Toronto, I find, is a fun tourist attraction for 2 days max (aside from if you're in town for an event or some sorts)... I mean, the Eatons Centre is the most visited tourist attraction??? I think that's pretty embarrassing considering a city this size...
Toronto site seeing (sorta like those double deck bus tours) i find is pretty boring compared to say, a Chicago... I mean, there are a few things to see on the outside, but for the most part, it's not that exciting and grand.... Inside attractions (like museums and that sorta things) are more exciting...
Outside viewing experiences: A stroll in Queens Park?... pass to that,

 

[steveve]

And Canada's entertainment industry is what...........1/100th the size of the US industry?
American studios aren't going to produce storylines that take place in Canada. Maybe they'll do a small budget film once a year.

i know that, but even Canadian indie films shy away from Toronto... they focus on the REAL Canada, as non-Torontonians would say ... There's not a lot unique or spectacular about Toronto on the international level, at least to be put on screen,

 

[Marcanadian]

word... live in Toronto, tour another city. And yes, I do have some bias considering i've lived here all my life, but even still, i don't think anyones arguing how liveable this city is (minus the traffic.... which is 3rd world country bad!)
.. Toronto, I find, is a fun tourist attraction for 2 days max (aside from if you're in town for an event or some sorts)... I mean, the Eatons Centre is the most visited tourist attraction??? I think that's pretty embarrassing considering a city this size...
Toronto site seeing (sorta like those double deck bus tours) i find is pretty boring compared to say, a Chicago... I mean, there are a few things to see on the outside, but for the most part, it's not that exciting and grand.... Inside attractions (like museums and that sorta things) are more exciting...
Outside viewing experiences: A stroll in Queens Park?... pass to that,

Chicago's number 1 attraction is Navy Pier, which is basically Ontario Place on steroids. I was surprised to hear that.


Toronto has a lot of interesting things to do, but they aren't promoted as effectively as they could be:

CN Tower, Eaton Centre/Dundas Square, Casa Loma, Yorkville, Hockey Hall of Fame, AGO, ROM, Science Centre, Zoo, High Park, Toronto Islands, Ontario Place, Wonderland, CNE, Distillery District, Chinatown, Kensington Market, Queen West, Rogers Centre, ACC, Fort York, NPS, UofT, Queen's Park.