Toronto Casino Woodbine | 31.85m | 11s | One Toronto Gaming | CGL Architects

I have no idea what to make of this intro video to Woodbine Live? I cannot imagine this type of concept working at all, not even remotely to the levels of visiting public that they are showing their video.

There seems to be so much happening at the place, I can hardly imagine it at all possible. In reality, what I would imagine is something along the lines of a more excessive SmartCentre. Somehow I am just not buying their pitch.

p5
 
The Cordish Company ( http://www.cordish.com/sub.cfm?section=newdev ) seems to have developed their "Live!" concept successfully across the United States.

I think this project will be targeting a very large geographic area and will be able to support their numbers. It will become a destination within the southern ontario.

The "Mills" ( http://www.simon.com/about_simon/our_business/themills.aspx ) aroused a similar doubt when in was proposed in Vaughan. This project proceeded and I don't think anyone has looked back.

These types of developments have been very well researched/implemented and are essentially duplicated all over the US. Another such development I would like to see in the GTA would be a Gaylord Convention Centre. http://www.gaylordhotels.com/about-gaylord/
 
Holy crap. I knew it was going to be big, but that big? I mean, that's pre-recession big. Who'd they get financing from? Santa Claus? Yowza.

20 years to get built-out, if it happens at all.

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I cannot help but note a divergence of opinion on Woodbine Live! Big or not big? Possible or not possible? Five years or never ever in a lifetime? Attraction for all of Southern Ontario, or a certain failure? Given that it's a parking lot now, I wish them luck. However, I saw nothing in the privatized mock-urban setting that would bring me there more than once (just to check it out). Gee, stores along walking routes? That might be novel in Atlanta, but we have quite a bit of it in Toronto.

And, frankly, it seems unlikely to proceed in the current climate, though I imagine the planning for this would take years in itself.

I will say, however, that those Gaylord Covention centres strike me as grotesqueries bound to fail. I'd rather see almost anything but one of those get built here.
 
You must realize businesses think long term ... if your going to make longer-term decisions based on this recession the best of luck to you ... the same argument could be made during the hieght of the boom as well.

This is a large (huge) scale project and the recession does not factor into it one bit ... less then finding fiance which is a another story all together.

Regarding the success of this project I think it can work - it might work well. If anything, I see it attracting a lot of folks from MCC - depending on how well it's setup and the variety of stores.

The argument that stores won't draw people in considering Toronto is graced with there present is rather mute ... The main draw needs to be the other attractions, the stores can develop over time. Moreover, if they're smart about it what they would do is try to target multiple demographics i.e. partly a pacific mall type setup.

Anyway, best of luck - I do think it has great potential and I can't think of anything that would be better on the site.
 
Archivist said:
I cannot help but note a divergence of opinion on Woodbine Live! Big or not big? Possible or not possible? Five years or never ever in a lifetime? Attraction for all of Southern Ontario, or a certain failure? Given that it's a parking lot now, I wish them luck. However, I saw nothing in the privatized mock-urban setting that would bring me there more than once (just to check it out). Gee, stores along walking routes? That might be novel in Atlanta, but we have quite a bit of it in Toronto.

And, frankly, it seems unlikely to proceed in the current climate, though I imagine the planning for this would take years in itself.

I will say, however, that those Gaylord Covention centres strike me as grotesqueries bound to fail. I'd rather see almost anything but one of those get built here.
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Disney land architecture aside the all in one concept has proven very successful. It appeals to convention business travellers, organizers and their families. Offering everything to everybody under one roof, both business and pleasure, could work well here or at one of the other Toronto convention locations. Maybe Ex Place?
 
Trust me it's coming, what's uncertain will be its final size, layout, tenant mix, extent of mixed use, etc. This project will draw from the GTA and beyond and it's all about escapism with Cordish. There's a mix of residential, office, hotel, restaurant, retail & entertainment. I call that smart planning and will give this area the boost it needs.

Big box leasing plan:

bigboxfinal.jpg
 
Vaughn Mills is in no way an entity by which one can measure success. I resent the time my girlfriend dragged me there to this day. Everything about that place screams anti-urban destination and above all is structured around what seems to be temporary buildings - like a circus tent, only here for a couple days and then on to the next forsaken suburb.

These types of developments have been very well researched/implemented and are essentially duplicated all over the US.
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While they may be well-researched and implemented in the US, that in no-way means they are a sure shot here. Most of the renderings in the video showcase outdoor activities- shopping, eating, skating (with green trees, like in summer?), promenading etc.- most of which may work in the summer months, but its cold pretty much 8 out of 12 months here. I just don't see this one flying. Furthermore, there just aren't that many people to make this place as vibrant as they are imagining it to be.

p5
 
p5connex said:
Vaughn Mills is in no way an entity by which one can measure success. I resent the time my girlfriend dragged me there to this day. Everything about that place screams anti-urban destination and above all is structured around what seems to be temporary buildings - like a circus tent, only here for a couple days and then on to the next forsaken suburb.
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This makes no sense at all ...

Success isn't measured based on what you think is urban or not. I'll take that a step farther, it isn't measured by what any of us this is urban. What it comes down to in the end is sales ... and trust me on this one - even if you didn't enjoy being dragged out to Vaughn Mills there were quite a few others that did ... or, they didn't, as well but felt the urge to spend anyway :)

Anyway, people are questioning the economic feasibility - not how well it fits into an urban context < based on that you're definitely entitled to criticize it - it's a bit early though to draw any conclusions.
 
bAuHaUs said:
Trust me it's coming, what's uncertain will be its final size, layout, tenant mix, extent of mixed use, etc. ...
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I know you might not be allowed to share inside information (so it's okay to ignore this :) ) ... but why so confident?

Or are you just implying that it will be built sometime in the future i.e. with no time line whatsoever -> maybe in 20 years lol
 
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