Toronto/Boston comparisons

[kool maudit]

this of u of t / harvard thing is embarrassingly homerish. were u of t in boston, and harvard in toronto, you would be totally unambiguous about saying toronto had the advantage. can you not see that you are sticking up for the home team at least a bit here?

 

[allabootmatt]

this of u of t / harvard thing is embarrassingly homerish. were u of t in boston, and harvard in toronto, you would be totally unambiguous about saying toronto had the advantage. can you not see that you are sticking up for the home team at least a bit here?

Agreed. Harvard and MIT play at the absolute top of the global first division.

That said, U of T is no slouch--arguably Canada's best university and one of a handful of top Canadian schools that can compete with the real international contenders. And from an urban perspective, U of T has been massively influential on Toronto and in a positive way. Come to think of it, it is probably one of the best 'downtown' universities of which I am aware. Harvard, MIT, Stanford, Yale, Columbia, Princeton are all located either in outlying areas of big cities or in small towns. This adds an interesting element to the UofT-Toronto relationship.

 

[golodhendil]

It's always somewhat gratifying to hear in scientific presentations when colleagues here in Boston speak of "when X was first discovered / demonstrated up in Toronto" or "our collaborators / competitors in Toronto" or "Toronto is such a powerhouse". And it's not at all infrequent to hear that.

The schools in Boston and Toronto collaborate and compete to such an extent and at such a level in all fields, with such a flow of information and personnel, but most laypeople, and even UofT students, don't fully appreciate, when all they are aware of are the generalized rankings (itself a highly controversial field) where Harvard appears at the top and UofT appears at, say, #15.

 

[freshcutgrass]

The 50k sticker price is a persistent myth.

Of course if you qualify for assistance, it won't cost that much. The cost wasn't really the gist of my point. I was stating that the effort required to try and get admitted to Harvard isn't really worth it, based on how many undergrads they enrol every year. Unless you are the children of alumni, your chances are quite slim. I'm just saying you're probably better off skipping the urge to be in an "elite" school, and get just as good an education at UofT. Which is why UofT's star has been continuously rising.

Much of Harvard's cache lies in its history, influence, and wealth, and in today's world, people are putting less and less importance on elitism.

 

[Ladies Mile]

UofT definitely has a better looking campus.

Harvard has a collection of the purest, most stripped-down colonial landmarks, major works by Richardson, the only building by Corb in North America and the greatest collection of Brutalism on one campus anywhere with the possible exception of Yale.

UoT has some great Brutalist buildings too but is otherwise the standard Gothic sham unloaded off the fake-truck in every place from Princeton to Seattle.

 

[pman]

Of course if you qualify for assistance, it won't cost that much. The cost wasn't really the gist of my point. I was stating that the effort required to try and get admitted to Harvard isn't really worth it, based on how many undergrads they enrol every year. Unless you are the children of alumni, your chances are quite slim. I'm just saying you're probably better off skipping the urge to be in an "elite" school, and get just as good an education at UofT. Which is why UofT's star has been continuously rising.

Much of Harvard's cache lies in its history, influence, and wealth, and in today's world, people are putting less and less importance on elitism.

Presumably we're on this site because we like and care about Toronto, and nobody's saying that the UofT is a bad school or that its researchers haven't made some significant discoveries. But - because we care about Toronto - we do need to learn from other cities that may do things better than we do. People aren't ranking Boston's universities as better than Toronto's because of their "cache" (sic), but because they have generated vibrant local tech and venture capital sectors that have created significant local wealth. Toronto's universities, not so much. So perhaps we could learn something from Boston, and from Waterloo for that matter, and think about how public investments in research and higher education can pay large dividends. My fondest wish for Toronto is that we would create an MIT clone here, not for the "cache" but for the economic future of the city. And however wonderful UofT is, it's no MIT.

 

[Ladies Mile]

I agree with pman--Harvard is seen as the elite, because it IS the elite.

And anyone who thinks that means less and not more these days has yet to do business with China (where "I see you went to Harvard" pretty much means "we will actually listen to what you have to say.")

 

[Tewder]

Absolutely, these things are ranked all the time and schools care enormously about the status of their faculty, the successes of their alumni, and the achievements of their departments, all of which contributing to their overall reputations or standing... It's the same within a local context where all things being equal does it carry the same weight to graduate from Brock or Lakehead as it does UofT or Queen's?

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

Downtown universities

That said, U of T is no slouch--arguably Canada's best university and one of a handful of top Canadian schools that can compete with the real international contenders. And from an urban perspective, U of T has been massively influential on Toronto and in a positive way. Come to think of it, it is probably one of the best 'downtown' universities of which I am aware. Harvard, MIT, Stanford, Yale, Columbia, Princeton are all located either in outlying areas of big cities or in small towns. This adds an interesting element to the UofT-Toronto relationship.

I love U of T's campus. It really integrates nicely with the city, giving a great context to Queen's Park and the teaching hospitals.

However, and I guess it depends on how you define 'downtown', but Boston has BC, New York has NYU and Columbia, I'd call my alma mater of Georgetown 'downtown' in DC, although some might disagree. Of all the ones I've seen, though, McGill dominates its downtown like few others -- and Montreal is almost as teeming with college kids as Boston, since Concordia, UQAM and Montreal are also all on the Metro.

 

[golodhendil]

However, and I guess it depends on how you define 'downtown', but Boston has BC, New York has NYU and Columbia, I'd call my alma mater of Georgetown 'downtown' in DC, although some might disagree.

BC is out in the middle of suburbs; BU would be the one you're thinking of, and there're also Northeastern, the medical campuses of Harvard and Tufts, and the plethora of smaller universities and colleges within Boston's urban core. MIT and Harvard themselves are in the most urban parts of Cambridge, which is as dense as much of downtown Toronto.

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

BC is out in the middle of suburbs; BU would be the one you're thinking of, and there're also Northeastern, the medical campuses of Harvard and Tufts, and the plethora of smaller universities and colleges within Boston's urban core. MIT and Harvard themselves are in the most urban parts of Cambridge, which is as dense as much of downtown Toronto.

Sorry -- yes, I was thinking BU, not BC.

 

[freshcutgrass]

Harvard is seen as the elite, because it IS the elite.

And anyone who thinks that means less and not more these days has yet to do business with China (where "I see you went to Harvard" pretty much means "we will actually listen to what you have to say.")

And I bet you love Merchant Ivory films...don't you.



this of u of t / harvard thing is embarrassingly homerish.

The "Montreal" angle pretty much taints all subjectivity regarding anything "Toronto".

Harvard has a collection of the purest, most stripped-down colonial landmarks, major works by Richardson, the only building by Corb in North America and the greatest collection of Brutalism on one campus anywhere with the possible exception of Yale.

UoT has some great Brutalist buildings too but is otherwise the standard Gothic sham unloaded off the fake-truck in every place from Princeton to Seattle

.

This doesn't pass my smell test on subjectivity either.

You do realize that when Corbusier saw pictures of his completed Carpenter Center, he was so embarrassed, he didn't go to the opening....and then later killed himself. (really...it's true).

Although I am thinking of going down there to see if I can dismantle any parts of the building to sell at Christies. Apparently, the sum of the parts of Corbusier work is worth more than the whole. Even one of those rickety chairs his cousin designed for his buildings can fetch $20k.

 

[Ladies Mile]

And I bet you love Merchant Ivory films...don't you.



this of u of t / harvard thing is embarrassingly homerish.

The "Montreal" angle pretty much taints all subjectivity regarding anything "Toronto".


.

This doesn't pass my smell test on subjectivity either.

You do realize that when Corbusier saw pictures of his completed Carpenter Center, he was so embarrassed, he didn't go to the opening....and then later killed himself. (really...it's true).

Although I am thinking of going down there to see if I can dismantle any parts of the building to sell at Christies. Apparently, the sum of the parts of Corbusier work is worth more than the whole. Even one of those rickety chairs his cousin designed for his buildings can fetch $20k.

I loathe Merchant-Ivory. Dull middle-brow dross for Anglophiles. (Shudder.)

Sorry if you can't see the genius of the Carpenter Center. If we are to make personal imputations, no doubt you think the Sydney Opera House is worthless because it wasn't Utzon's original plan either.

 

[kool maudit]

The "Montreal" angle pretty much taints all subjectivity regarding anything "Toronto".

is this really the level on which you want to approach this? are you so factionally minded that you can only see people -- and their arguments -- as predetermined avatars of ongoing tribal wars? is the fact that i live in montreal the only possible reason i could have for saying what i said?

i'm on urbto because i like and am interested in toronto. you shouldn't have put me in a position where i felt i had to actually say that.

 

[Thanos]

And anyone who thinks that means less and not more these days has yet to do business with China (where "I see you went to Harvard" pretty much means "we will actually listen to what you have to say.")

Bullshit. Am i allowed to say that on the internet? If you think the Chineese will only listen to Harvard, Yale, etc graduates then you have a lot to learn. They couldn't care less about your diploma. Unless we're talking about trust fund babies who couldn't care less if they are sinking their daddies corporation.

The "Montreal" angle pretty much taints all subjectivity regarding anything "Toronto".

Care to explain? Because someone is from Montreal their opinion is tainted?

Are we seriously comparing UofT to MIT and Harvard?