TOareaFan
Superstar
If your definition of tailgating includes public consumption of Alcohol then there is more in the way of that happening than just space around Lamport.....has tailgating ever been part of the Argo experience?
Toronto BMO Field Renovations | ?m | ?s | MLSE | Gensler
- Thread starter unimaginative2
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If your definition of tailgating includes public consumption of Alcohol then there is more in the way of that happening than just space around Lamport.....has tailgating ever been part of the Argo experience?
TOareaFan
Superstar
Anyway....back to the BMO renovations.....with TFC selling out again (after a couple of years of sub 20k crowds) it is a reminder of how woefully inadequate that one tunnel from the Ex grounds to Liberty Village is........perhaps they could get the province and feds to contribute their money to infrastructure around the stadium rather than the stadium itself and this could include another tunnel or a bridge over the tracks to LV.
With 22.5k showing up now it is taking about 20 minutes in what has to be described as a less than optimal situation (from a safety perspective) to cross the tracks.....if the stadium is expanded to 30k this can only get worse.
With 22.5k showing up now it is taking about 20 minutes in what has to be described as a less than optimal situation (from a safety perspective) to cross the tracks.....if the stadium is expanded to 30k this can only get worse.
Big Daddy
Senior Member
Why not put the Argos in London Ont. - and T.O. Gets an NFL franchise?
Let the smaller cites have the CFL teams and move the Bills here, no one watches the CFL in T.O. Anymore.
Asked anyone you know what their favoutite football team is and I bet 99% give you the name of an NFL team.
Let the smaller cites have the CFL teams and move the Bills here, no one watches the CFL in T.O. Anymore.
Asked anyone you know what their favoutite football team is and I bet 99% give you the name of an NFL team.
isaidso
Senior Member
Toronto has the oldest professional football team in the world and you just want to give it away to another city? They may be at a historic low in regards of support, but they deserve far better treatment than that. It's astonishing how expendable Toronto's institutions and culture are to locals, but I suppose that's to be expected when the vast majority of locals aren't actually from Toronto. People move here, then want to ditch pieces of Toronto that aren't to their liking? The sheer callousness of that is off the chart.
What goes down, can go back up. The Argonauts are Toronto's football team and will claw their way back even if the current generation have been the worst custodians of the city's culture/heritage one could ever conjure up in your worst nightmare. It's about time Toronto's principal city supported this Canadian institution rather than destroying what took 150 years to build. That the city that gave birth to the sport now wants to get rid of it is the cruelest blow of all.
The NFL fantasy? There is no financial benefit to the NFL coming here and they know it. Money Canadians currently spend on US NFL teams will just get funneled towards Canadian based teams instead. The revenue for the NFL won't change one little bit. The last Bills game in Toronto only drew 38,000 and that's after steep discounts, heavy promotion, and thousands of ticket giveaways to avoid the embarrassment of a half empty stadium.
The reality is that the culture of Toronto has changed. Football (Canadian and American together) used to be a solid #2 in this city, but is arguably down to 5th today. Soccer, hockey, basketball, and baseball all rank ahead of gridiron (Canadian and American together). This is a city where its hard to find a high school with a football team, fields get ripped up and replaced by soccer pitches, and people look at you like you're from Mars when you suit up to go play a game. I would know, I play football.
The troubles with the Argonauts aren't limited to Canadian football, it's a problem with football overall. The NFL would be fools to come anywhere near Toronto and they're finally realizing what an awful football town this is. Want to rescue this sport? Go start with the team you already have... and don't really deserve. The Double Blue.
20,000-30,000 Torontonians still show up to support Toronto's football team. That's more than the soccer team, so the argument that no one's loyal to this team is false. Thank God for those people. People trying to save Toronto's old buildings aren't the only ones guarding this city's cultural heritage.
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MisterF
Senior Member
Assuming the BMO renos go ahead, it'll be the best stadium the Argos have had since the 70s. SkyDome is an awful football stadium. Exhibition Stadium wasn't much better after they rearranged it for baseball.
The TV viewership says otherwise.
Despite what the media and certain fans like to think, the NFL has no interest in Toronto.
The TV viewership says otherwise.
Despite what the media and certain fans like to think, the NFL has no interest in Toronto.
TOareaFan
Superstar
I am not a football fan per se and I agree with the notion that the Argos are not as dead as some would suggest....but I am not sure there is anything in those TV numbers that proves that.......they are, after all, TSN national numbers and TSN is, I think, available in markets outside of Toronto.
mistercorporate
The Fruit of Discipline
I don't know why you have to continuously make statements to the effect that because most people in Toronto are "not from Toronto" they are to be blamed and berated for changing "Toronto's institutions and culture". One of the many reasons people move here is to get away from the claustrophobic traditionalism of the old world (Europe, Asia, etc.) The fact is that even local born and bred Torontonians aren't into football like they used to anymore, not that it's relevant. There is no hierarchy of Canadians, there is no aristocratic privilege bestowed on multiple generation Canadians, all Canadian citizens are equal regardless of when they came here. Each new generation has changed the local culture and for good reason. Toronto was a very uptight and conservative place (though still quite diverse with an Irish and Italian immigrant-origin majority) before the big migration of Eastern Europeans and Mediterranean immigrants in the 50's-60's. They are the generation that were responsible for the skyscraper boom of the 70's and relaxing of liquor/entertainment laws, the great Montreal exodus of the 70's inspired much of the 80's skyscraper boom and new immigrants from Asia and the West Indies have done their bit to change our local culture and played a part with everyone else in shaping the new transformation we're undergoing. I was going to post a rant about the sports culture in this city but deleted what i wrote since the only part of your statements I took exception to was the statements focused on those Torontonians "not from Toronto" and changing the local culture. If everyone had that attitude we'd be living in teepees right now playing lacrosse and speaking in a French-Metis or Iroquois dialect. Let's continue to evolve and respect the fact that we're all Canadians, people who want to live an old world museum culture are free to take the next plane back to Europe or Asia.
StatGeek
Active Member
I think the NFL share their TV revenue equally among the teams. The NFL is a juggernaut in America, get's huge numbers national numbers no matter where the team is. Adding a team in Canada just adds bonus money to the TV pot when Bell, Rogers, heck maybe even Shaw battle for TV contracts which will go up with a Canadian team. The American price tag will not drop one single penny. There no team in Los Angeles or New York city and it' still the biggest TV contract of any of the sports. With a Toronto team you just add to the pot.
It's not really about attendance, it's more about box office. you can get 50,000 at a game, but If they are spending $2 a ticket its not going to mean much. You can have 15,000 and pay $20 a ticket and you make three times the profit then having 50,000 paying $2. CFL has also only 9 homes games a year while MLS soccer has double that. It's really apples and oranges comparing the two.
I don't hate the Argos, I wish them the best. But time and time again they have a chance to make themselves stable and they always either take the cheap or easy way out. Way back when the thought of having a soccer stadium the soccer guys was going to build a joined thing with the Argos at York, the Argos backed out last second because they got a sweetheart rent free deal from Rogers Centre, now soccer guys put their efforts into building a much smaller scale (kinda rinky dink) soccer specific stadium and now the Argos are jealous and want in. Why didn't the Argos try to work with Hamilton to get a joined stadium, again Hamilton went on an did their own thing and Argos are on the sideline.
Now I read TOareaFan saying York is revamping their stadium. Why aren't the Argos putting some money into that and join up with them. I hear nothing from the Argos about that. Again they seem to be wanting to stay in the sidelines and hope somebody hands something to them because of their "legacy" You're a hundred years old, start taking some responsibility and take care of yourself.
jafri998
New Member
Couldn't have said it better myself
TOareaFan
Superstar
To be clear....York is not revamping their stadium....a new stadium is being built at York for the PanAm games track and field.
The stadium is expected to seat approximately 5,000 spectators (3,000 permanent and 2,000 temporary. During the games an additional 7,500 temporary seats will be added, bringing total capacity to 12,500).[2] The facility will cost roughly $45.5 million ($34.9 million to design and build it and the rest for running costs). (source wiki)
http://images.toronto2015.org/syste...Parapan-Am-Athletics-Stadium-1.png?1382470637
I was just wondering out loud if there was a way to bring that up to 20 - 25k would that make sense for the Argos being as the subway will be there and there will be good road access and (assuming games are not held during the day in school year) a fairly good supply of parking spots.
Similarly, the Ti-Cats did not so much go on their own as they partnered with the City of Hamilton and the Pan Am games people to replace the aging Ivor Wynne stadium with a new stadium that will be used for the soccer at the Pan Ams and become home to the Ti-Cats.
Aside from being a nice pipe-dream (based, it seems, on the Giants and Jets sharing a stadium) the Ti-Cat and Argo thing is not remotely similar. The "shared" stadium would have to be partway between the two cities (Oakville?) and would likely be seen as both teams abandoning their "core" support in their home cities......much different than asking the fans of two NFL teams to cross the river to watch their games.
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spider
Senior Member
Do the NFL rules not state that the owner of a team must be an individual, not a company or corporation. Until Conrad or some other rich guy shows interest (and a lot of money) talk about a Toronto NFL franchise is just so much smoke.
Automation Gallery
Superstar
Yeah here in Toronto we call them, Larry Tanenbaum/Bon Jovi
nfitz
Superstar
Not having been to an Argos game since they played at Exhibition, I was not aware that tailgating was that significant here in Canada.
How does tailgating work at Skydome? How do they deal with the liquor laws?
GenerationW
Senior Member
A Toronto team wouldn't add much since Canadian rights fees are chump change to the NFL. What they really care about is U.S. network rights fees and ad rates, and that's all determined by U.S. ratings. Canadian numbers, whether good or bad, are not taken into account. We mean nothing to Madison Avenue.
And there are really two teams in New York City even though they play across the river in New Jersey.
They better add more guys. Latest story in the Sun suggests it could cost as much as $3 billion to bring a team here (buying the team, building a new stadium, and paying the league a relocation fee). They would also have to win two league votes -- one to approve the sale, and one to approve a relocation. And the Bills' lease apparently keeps them in Buffalo until 2023 no matter what, so a Toronto group would have to waste a lot of time and money keeping a lame-duck team in Buffalo.
MisterF
Senior Member
I suspect all this talk of moving the Argos to York or Markham really comes from a contempt for the team, whether it's misplaced anger from soccer fans or desire for the "big league" NFL. Moving them to York gets them neatly out of the way like subways get transit out of the way of drivers. The majority of fans might be from the suburbs, but that's no different from the Leafs or Jays. The majority of the residents of the GTA live in the suburbs too but they still come downtown for sports. Making a night out of it downtown is a big part of the experience. Moving to York would do the team no favours.
Anyway, if MLSE didn't think that sharing a stadium with the Argos were possible, they wouldn't do it. They could just as easily build their own TFC stadium but they're not going that route. I suspect they know more about maintaining a soccer pitch than we do.
Anyway, if MLSE didn't think that sharing a stadium with the Argos were possible, they wouldn't do it. They could just as easily build their own TFC stadium but they're not going that route. I suspect they know more about maintaining a soccer pitch than we do.
I'm not really a football fan (or soccer for that matter), but it's still fun to go to the occasional game. What the TV ratings show is that a lot of people watch the Argos whether they're in Toronto or not. A million viewers for regular season games is impressive no matter where they come from. The CFL gets better TV ratings than any sport other than hockey. And that's important with the amount of money TSN is now spending for the rights.