Toronto Bay Adelaide Centre | 217.92m | 51s | Brookfield | KPMB

Why sink all of that money to build the underground elements if they weren't going to go all of the way? It doesn't make sense to deliberately set out to build a capped project. Even if they were just after the parking revenue it probably would've been more cost effective to just pave the lot and go with surface parking
 
whatever said:
Why sink all of that money to build the underground elements if they weren't going to go all of the way? It doesn't make sense to deliberately set out to build a capped project. Even if they were just after the parking revenue it probably would've been more cost effective to just pave the lot and go with surface parking
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If they're already paying have the lost excavated and parking levels built for the Delta, then it makes sense to do the entire underground at once.
 
maestro said:
Southcore 2 is currently planned to be capped at grade . It won't be going ahead on spec.
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With vacancy rates as low as they are, this makes no sense - especially when they are as far a long as they are - and word that three more towers are on their way doe to demand. stopping and starting years later is more expensive since design and plans always change. How much of the Bay-Adelaide stump was reused?

I don't know how you could be privy to such information but I think it should be required to provide some proof if you are going to drop rumours like this - and the mods should remove them if they are simply fishing or fire starting.
 
Honestly it makes some sense ... and it may be more along these lines: "We will cap it if we don't lease enough by the time we're done digging" which would be 6 months or so.

I say this because office buildings just don't go up on spec! That's what happened in the 80s and led to the lack of construction for 10+ years
 
I agreed. Proof of information has to be required on this site. Anybody can make up rumors and and say this or that but as long as they provide proof then its good.

The South Core Financial website says Bremner Tower is under construction and scheduled to be completed 2013.
 
Big Daddy said:
With vacancy rates as low as they are, this makes no sense - especially when they are as far a long as they are - and word that three more towers are on their way doe to demand. stopping and starting years later is more expensive since design and plans always change. How much of the Bay-Adelaide stump was reused?

I don't know how you could be privy to such information but I think it should be required to provide some proof if you are going to drop rumours like this - and the mods should remove them if they are simply fishing or fire starting.
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I'm not nearly as optimistic as you on the office market. Vacancy rates only tell one story. Regardless building on spec is a whole other ball game. Allied is aggressive as hell however, QWC is still a boutique development. It's a far cry from a Bay Adelaide Centre 2. Last I heard they still hadn't locked up a tenant although it doesn't necessarily mean much. I'm not sure what other towers you are talking about. There are a dozen or so in varying pre-leasing modes but I haven't heard much in regards to RFPs.

My info comes from a GWL broker. It's your choice whether you want to believe the marketing hype which likely isn't telling the whole truth or an agent who could be completely wrong.
 
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maestro said:
I'm not nearly as optimistic as you on the office market. Vacancy rates only tell one story. Regardless building on spec is a whole other ball game. Allied is aggressive as hell however, QWC is still a boutique development. It's a far cry from a Bay Adelaide Centre 2. Last I heard they still hadn't locked up a tenant although it doesn't necessarily mean much. I'm not sure what other towers you are talking about. There are a dozen or so in varying pre-leasing modes but I haven't heard much in regards to RFPs.

My info comes from a GWL broker. It's your choice whether you want to believe the marketing hype which likely isn't telling the whole truth or an agent who could be completely wrong.
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I'd like to hear your specific views regarding the office market ?

Regarding Allied I've heard the same about QWC - and recall this should have already been under construction now according to their original schedule. Though according to a source on this site they are supposedly close to signing a lead tenant.


Regarding not being optimistic; I don't fall into that category ! :) I do believe we'll hear about another office tower starting construction soon. Simply put there is demand for new space; 'new' being the key here, so it may come at the cost of older space sitting empty. There are advantages to this though; What do you think drove the owners of BMO / TD center to do all these renovations!
 
It seems very strange that there is no information on Bremner tower being capped. There is no information anywhere. Bremner tower is actually the first tower in be completed 2013 then Delta tower in 2014.

On the Official website http://www.southcore.ca/ both towers are being constructed at the same time.


Unless the company makes a formal announced then take what he/she says a face value.



I should know my contact who works at MARS told be construction will be restarting October 2010. I posted that information and look how that turned out.


The best thing to do is let the company make a formal announcement. Everything that is on their official website and at the groundbreaking in December said that construction on Bremner is going to in completed in 2013 and Delta Hotel in 2014.
 
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Enough speculating about Southcore in this thread please - this is the Bay Adelaide East Tower thread!
 
Why would a company advertisea a planned cap at grade? It defeats the purpose.

The same companies that build new towers are the same ones that own the built inventory. There objective is to fill space they have. This isn't the US where competition is fierce. This is little old Canada run by oligopolies.

Brookfield is quite concerned about their inventory which normally has a rate below 3% vacancy even when the overall rate is in the double digits.. I just don't see them pushing BA2 with all the available space.
 
Taal,

I think some of the reasons outlined here are why I wouldn't invest in commercial real estate tied to high tech. It's not that high tech isn't good for the general economy, it's just that a lot of the decision making on location in that industry seems to be highly sensitive to price and location specific subsidy. Tech companies grow quick and that's great but this is a symptom of volitility and on the face proves that older players are dying as new players surge ahead. When we bring these issues back to the realm of real estate, it seems to me that renting to tech companies is like renting an apartment to students.
 
TrickyRicky said:
Taal,

I think some of the reasons outlined here are why I wouldn't invest in commercial real estate tied to high tech. It's not that high tech isn't good for the general economy, it's just that a lot of the decision making on location in that industry seems to be highly sensitive to price and location specific subsidy. Tech companies grow quick and that's great but this is a symptom of volitility and on the face proves that older players are dying as new players surge ahead. When we bring these issues back to the realm of real estate, it seems to me that renting to tech companies is like renting an apartment to students.
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I see your point.

But they're a large part of any countries economy so ideally we'd strive to attract (and keep) them in the core as well.
Personally I see a successful 'core' as one that caters to all sorts of sectors within reason. The reason being rent will higher undoubtedly and if it is not it likely implies something else is wrong.

Again my only subtle point here is; How much do taxes come into play, if in the core it's pretty negligible then fine that's OK. My view towards the effect taxes have outside the core though are I'm sure clear to all by now (too clear :) so I won't get into that.
 
"The owners have applied for part lot control exemption for a period of two years to allow them to complete these
transactions without going before the Committee of Adjustment."

"The site plan for the east tower has been approved, but the agreement has not been registered and the owner has indicated that there may be some
minor revisions. There is no development proposal yet for the north development block."

Not sure what a part lot control is myself.
 
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