Toronto 45 The Esplanade | 130.85m | 39s | Republic | Arcadis

[RepublicDevelopments]

Losing the colonnade would be unfortunate. Wish they would keep and spruce it up, or recreate it.

For what it's worth, we wanted to retain a version of the colonnade. The community was 50/50 on it (half liked it primarily as a covered sidewalk, half thought is was dark and dangerous). Our initial submission proposed to retain the covered component but open it up to be more visible and safe. We felt this option delivered the best of both world for people. Unfortunately for that plan, the city wanted a wider setback to align with 75 The Esplanade next door which we agreed to. This was one of a number of compromises that were made to gain support for the project. We do realize not everyone will appreciate the design but there were reasons for every move that was made which was ultimately supported by the city, and the St Lawrence Neighbourhood Association.

 

[isaidso]

Why? It's a beautiful historicist facade. I'm tired of generation after generation tearing down great buildings just because they're not old enough to be designated. It makes many parts of our downtown look generic and forgettable.

Unfortunately, people never learn from past mistakes. If it doesn't fit current aesthetics, it's deemed ugly, and must be destroyed. These same people will be livid 40 years from now when the new generations use the same arguments to tear down developments like Mirvish Village or replace One Bloor East's facade with something 2060 appropriate. But it doesn't look good! Nothing is safe. Buildings people gush about today will face the wrecker's ball 2-3 generations from now.

 

[DavidCapizzano]

Why? It's a beautiful historicist facade. I'm tired of generation after generation tearing down great buildings just because they're not old enough to be designated. It makes many parts of our downtown look generic and forgettable.

This area is on the edge of the city's old town, and the existing building does a far better job of acknowledging that than its proposed replacement. The new tower would obviously have to be designed to harmonize with the existing facade if it's preserved. But this sort of thing has been done many times in the city (just not with a facade this recent).

It’s literally precast concrete from the 80s

I agree that the oversized arches of the proposed design are wayyyyy too much and need to be rethought, but let’s not act like what is there is some historical marvel.

 

[egotrippin]

It's no marvel, but again that precast '80s PoMo stands out from the inexpressive walls of glass we largely get nowadays. Opinions on the colonnade experience are mixed but I've always enjoyed walking under it, granted I recognize it's no Roman colonnade and is feeling a bit worse for wear nowadays.

So instead what if we reimagine it with better materials; real stone at the base, or at least higher quality precast, and design a tower in the PoMo/Neoclassical vein of 1 St. Thomas. Something that recreates the solidity of the current building and is complementary to the neighbouring colonnade, as well as the nearby Beaux Arts Union Station and Dominion Public Building.

It sounds like the colonnade itself is out, but there's no reason we can't recreate the general idea and sturdy masonry appearance that exists now.

 

[amh]

Why? It's a beautiful historicist facade. I'm tired of generation after generation tearing down great buildings just because they're not old enough to be designated. It makes many parts of our downtown look generic and forgettable.

This area is on the edge of the city's old town, and the existing building does a far better job of acknowledging that than its proposed replacement. The new tower would obviously have to be designed to harmonize with the existing facade if it's preserved. But this sort of thing has been done many times in the city (just not with a facade this recent).

It’s not a great building. It’s not a good example of architecture from its time. There wouldn’t even be anything to preserve other than some precast and EIFS. We can put something far better in its place - it’s insane to argue for preserving its generic ‘80s architecture instead of proposing that the new building does something even better.

 

[junctionist]

The "elegant colonnade" is one of the worst places to walk in Toronto. And it doesn't even look good either.

Perhaps it went downhill when the building was used as a homeless shelter. But it used to be a nice part of a walk on a snowy day, when the sidewalk at the colonnade would be far cleaner than in places where it wasn't covered. It was also a highlight of any walk during a downpour and on a hot summer day when some shelter/shade really made a difference.

 

[UtakataNoAnnex]

I personally like the arches...even if they're made of EIFS'liscious tripe. And it would be amazing if the developer here where to remake them using real materials...

...but that doesn't seem to be the issue or the case. Rather that in order move on with re-developing this building, it appears The City wants them gone. *Poof!* So it's all for not currently and sadly.

And thanks for explaining all that @RepublicDevelopments. /bows

 

[Undead]

The "elegant colonnade" is one of the worst places to walk in Toronto. And it doesn't even look good either.

It could be spruced up a bit, but completely disagree on both counts. The hyperbole isn't helping your claim btw.

 

[ProjectEnd]

To make colonnades like this really work, they have to enclose the full sidewalk, right out to the street. You can't half-ass it and put a small, awkward, enclosure beside a building, then leave the rest out in the sun. Part of the reason this one works is because there's more space under the canopy than out on the 'sidewalk' so that's where people walk. As Matt has explained, it would be extremely difficult to propose this today as Planning's vision is almost singularly: perception of density = bad, therefore building over the sidewalk = not going to happen. A good example of the difference is up on Bay, where the colonnade only gets used in inclement weather:

Compare the above with this, in Rome. Essentially the same dimensions, yet completely different because all pedestrian traffic has to walk under it:

So while this sure ain't Rome, it's closer to that example than to the Bay Street one, which is what Planning would tell you is possible today:

 

[mburrrrr]

I wonder why there is always a wedding or engagement or modelling shoot under the colonnade. Someone must like it.

From my bias opinion, I think it’s great, not perfect but unique. Nor is it Florence. Taken in 2018.

What will 25 The Esplanade look like when half the colonnade is removed?

 

[evandyk]

Compare the above with this, in Rome. Essentially the same dimensions, yet completely different because all pedestrian traffic has to walk under it:

View attachment 505830

So while this sure ain't Rome, it's closer to that example than to the Bay Street one, which is what Planning would tell you is possible today:

We lived off of that square in Rome for a month when the toddler was just an itty bitty baby, and the colonnade was wonderful when it was raining (it was mostly October, so not too hot). Not only because it was dry, but there were cafes, bookstores, people watching, etc., and it was wide enough to linger. I would be totally in favour of a colonnade that works, but the heavy and dark Esplanade colonnade has never worked.

I know I should just move to Bologna if I want colonnades that work, but there's no inherent reason Toronto couldn't have them!

The Porticoes of Bologna

If you have visited Bologna, you can’t have missed its miles of porticoes. In fact, its 25 miles (40 km) of porticoes – or 38 miles (62 km) if you include those outside the Centro Stori…

italianreflections.wordpress.com

 

[ProjectEnd]

We lived off of that square in Rome for a month when the toddler was just an itty bitty baby, and the colonnade was wonderful when it was raining (it was mostly October, so not too hot). Not only because it was dry, but there were cafes, bookstores, people watching, etc., and it was wide enough to linger. I would be totally in favour of a colonnade that works, but the heavy and dark Esplanade colonnade has never worked.

I know I should just move to Bologna if I want colonnades that work, but there's no inherent reason Toronto couldn't have them!

The Porticoes of Bologna

If you have visited Bologna, you can’t have missed its miles of porticoes. In fact, its 25 miles (40 km) of porticoes – or 38 miles (62 km) if you include those outside the Centro Stori…

italianreflections.wordpress.com

There's a unifying feature in every one of those photos of Bologna: Over. The. Sidewalk. To. The. Street.

 

[DSC]

The "elegant colonnade" is one of the worst places to walk in Toronto. And it doesn't even look good either.

I love proper colonnades but agree Toronto does not do them properly. They are either blocked with cafes or merchandise or, as here, too secluded and not terribly pleasant to use.

 

[mburrrrr]

Photo dump just for the record;

Happy hour anyone?

 

[Rimawi]

We should start a petition to save this base. It’s such a stunner, fits with the historic character of the neighbourhood and would be a shame to lose