Toronto 307 Sherbourne Street | 61.5m | 18s | Forum Asset Mgmt | Superkül

Another opportunity to gentrify the neighborhood and remove the crack dealers, prostitutes and alcoholics from this neighborhood and move them out to the edges of the city.
 
Patrick Wingert said:
Another opportunity to gentrify the neighborhood and remove the crack dealers, prostitutes and alcoholics from this neighborhood and move them out to the edges of the city.
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It there's one area/stetch that needs to be cleaned up it's this one all the way down to moss Park and over to the East. I take the bus through there on Sherbourne. It's depressing at times. Those rundown houses on Sherbourne south of Gerrard are disappointing. So much character.
 
Agreed about those houses just south of here. They are beautiful, but falling apart.
Also. This isn't pushing anyone out it was an empty lot.
 
stjames2queenwest said:
Agreed about those houses just south of here. They are beautiful, but falling apart.
Also. This isn't pushing anyone out it was an empty lot.
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Not literally but each new development in this neighbourhood increases pressure on rents and threatens those surrounding this site. The fact those persons are in such a vulnerable position compared to even the average low-income renter (ie. rooming houses don't need to be rebuilt 1:1 like rental units and often border on illegal, making the city more likely to shut down rather than force renovations) means this type of redevelopment in this type of neighbourhood is much more effective in moving people to "the edges of the city," as the new account above so eloquently put it.

Whether you think it is right or not to force out vulnerable people who live in this neighbourhood because there is nowhere else for them to turn, let's not pretend gentrification only happens one lot at a time. It is a long-running process that gradually forces people out and developments such as these are just as much about forcing the urban poor out as the twin towers at Dundas and Jarvis that shut down a bunch of rooming houses.
 
Well as someone who rents in the area because I have so much student debt it's stupid.
I've seen enough dead bodies (yes plural - like 7) a fatal stabbing, been held at knife point once, and have physical violence threatened towards me many times. And I'm a big dude with a dog.
Let's just say I'd like to see some more mild gentrification.
It's easy for people to judge when you have other options
I get it. I do
Those rooming houses should have to be replaced.
It's hard. But this area should be more of a mix.
 
stjames2queenwest said:
It's frustrating to hear opinions from people who don't have to directly deal with it.
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I have dealt with this directly. I didn't live in this neighbourhood but a similarly rough one as a student. I've heard gunshots and seen my share of fucked up stuff (including a half naked woman begging for money because she literally couldn't clothe herself). Instead of trying to push the problem away, maybe you should search within yourself for the tiniest bit of compassion and sympathy for the plight of these people. They're not drug addicts, prostitutes and "undesirable" to make your life difficult and they don't deserve to be pushed out of their homes so you can avoid seeing them.
 
wolfewood said:
I have dealt with this directly. I didn't live in this neighbourhood but a similarly rough one as a student. I've heard gunshots and seen my share of fucked up stuff (including a half naked woman begging for money because she literally couldn't clothe herself). Instead of trying to push the problem away, maybe you should search within yourself for the tiniest bit of compassion and sympathy for the plight of these people. They're not drug addicts, prostitutes and "undesirable" to make your life difficult and they don't deserve to be pushed out of their homes so you can avoid seeing them.
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Hmmm you preached at me once for saying I like to look at the great pictures of buildings rather than be concerned with the plight of the the poor and marginalized. We are ALL entitled to our opinions and and the 'improvement ' of this area would be good for all. It's been waiting for many many years to 'improve' and above all else that is a good thing. Perhaps they will be more estashlishments that will offer gainful employment. More families. More eyes on the street. More money rather than more poverty. What is wrong with that?
 
LUVIT! said:
Hmmm you preached at me once for saying I like to look at the great pictures of buildings rather than be concerned with the plight of the the poor and marginalized. We are ALL entitled to our opinions and and the 'improvement ' of this area would be good for all. It's been waiting for many many years to 'improve' and above all else that is a good thing. Perhaps they will be more estashlishments that will offer gainful employment. More families. More eyes on the street. More money rather than more poverty. What is wrong with that?
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But these improvements are meaningless for those living there. Condos aren't places to work. They create opportunities for employment but that takes time to come and that employment is often beyond the skill sets the people living in the east downtown have. More families and eyes on the streets means more chances to be arrested or harassed by the police and pushes drug use, prostitution and other crimes underground where yuppie sensibilities won't be offended but the problems don't just disappear. The money that'll come to this neighbourhood won't benefit those who are already there. They're not investors, real estate agents or yuppies. What does a drug addict or prostitute care about land value? Commercial rents? The only thing that matters is that their rent goes up or, more often than not, their homes are taken out from under their feet.

Now, despite the reputation I'm sure I'm earning here, I'm not opposed to development, nor am I opposed to attempting to improve this neighbourhood. I don't want the people living here to remain in poverty either. But it is naive to think that condo development as it currently occurs is going to help the people already living in the downtown east. Forcing them from their homes into homelessness or, if they're lucky, shitty, ratty apartments in the suburbs (that are far from the services that can help them today) is not a good solution. You're entitled to your opinions, yes, but I'm entitled to point out the gaping holes in this theory that condos = prosperity for all.
 
I now live in the area, and see the folks living here everyday. Condos are not the solution to their life problems, but neither is letting the area remain a shabby, destitute area. If one is really upset about their plight, advocate for dignified affordable housing, programs that would get these folks off of drugs and provide help with life skills and job training. Railing against development is an obvious target, but it implicitly suggests their current situation is somehow acceptable.
 
You're entitled to your opinions, yes, but I'm entitled to point out the gaping holes in this theory that condos = prosperity for all.
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You know this thread isn't about a condo development, right?

. More families and eyes on the streets means more chances to be arrested or harassed by the police and pushes drug use, prostitution and other crimes underground where yuppie sensibilities won't be offended but the problems don't just disappear.
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Wow. This is a common mantra today. Anyone who had the means (probably because they worked hard) to buy a home, is pure evil. The dealers, users and prostitutes, whose housing is subsidised by the working class, deserve to be treated like kings.

Why don't you live in this neighbourhood? Don't like the crime? Scared?
 
Do not judge me.
I live by choice here because I do feel compassion and realize it is a select few. And I help when I can. All I am saying is that a 13 storey condo here on an empty lot is not going to be the end all. I have to deal with the rent increases as well.
I do not think I am better than these people I am just not afraid to admit that there is a problem. Condos are not the answer, but aversion to them is not helping anything either.
 
Tulse said:
I now live in the area, and see the folks living here everyday. Condos are not the solution to their life problems, but neither is letting the area remain a shabby, destitute area. If one is really upset about their plight, advocate for dignified affordable housing, programs that would get these folks off of drugs and provide help with life skills and job training. Railing against development is an obvious target, but it implicitly suggests their current situation is somehow acceptable.
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As I said, I'm not opposed to development. This would be my ideal. I'm railing against the "push 'em out and hope for the best" attitude above.

doug said:
You know this thread isn't about a condo development, right?



Wow. This is a common mantra today. Anyone who had the means (probably because they worked hard) to buy a home, is pure evil. The dealers, users and prostitutes, whose housing is subsidised by the working class, deserve to be treated like kings.

Why don't you live in this neighbourhood? Don't like the crime? Scared?
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Yes, I know it is a rental. Does that change anything? It'll boost land values and raise rents across the neighbourhood no different than a condo would. If anything, it might encourage higher rents by introducing actual rental units that are regulated by the RTA and encouraging existing landlords to rent to the types of people moving into the neighbourhood.

I don't live in the downtown east because I moved out of Toronto at the end of my undergrad to pursue graduate studies. I had actually intended to live my last year in this neighbourhood but I didn't get an offer from the landlord I spoke to. So no, I'm not scared of the people who live here, nor am I afraid to live in this neighbourhood.

stjames2queenwest said:
Do not judge me.
I live by choice here because I do feel compassion and realize it is a select few. And I help when I can. All I am saying is that a 13 storey condo here on an empty lot is not going to be the end all. I have to deal with the rent increases as well.
I do not think I am better than these people I am just not afraid to admit that there is a problem. Condos are not the answer, but aversion to them is not helping anything either.
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So your solution is to continue driving people out? That doesn't strike me as very compassionate. And if the existing solutions are not solving the problems associated with the downtown east, perhaps we should stop doing what we're doing and change tack? Or are shiny condos (sorry, @doug, rentals) more important than actual lives?
 
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