Toronto 2150 Lake Shore | 215.75m | 67s | First Capital | Allies and Morrison

just realized their masterplan drawings listed the building heights... so now we finally have an idea how big it is


224.8 meters is the tallest building for purposes of the title... so this means Eau du Soleil will remain the tallest building in HBS for the forseeable future at 227.98m... though the 224.8m building should appear taller just because of the elevation change.

Building heights as listed in the masterplan.
12.8m / 3s
13.8m / 3s
16.4m / 5s
20.7m / 5s
21.8m / 6s
28.9m / 8s
32.1m / 10s
33.8m / 10s
34.5m / 10s
39.4m / 9s
39.5m / 9s
40.8m / 12s
41.1m / 12s
41.2m / 12s
47.4m / 11s
50.4m / 12s
51.5m / 12s
55.1m / 16s
81.6m / 25s
82.5m / 26s
112m / 34s
116.3m /36s
129.3m / 40s
133.5m / 41s
150.9m / 47s
162.4m / 51s
173.2m / 53s
178.2m / 55s
179.4m / 56s
214.3m / 66s
216.5m / 68s
224.8m / 70s
 
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32 buildings on this siteo_O

Humber Bay Park is already clogged up as it is right now, and all the residents from the newest builds still havent even moved in. By the time First Capital completes their Master Plan, this area is going to be severely park deficient.

The city better be prepping an order for more fill for the lake.
 
Amare said:
32 buildings on this siteo_O

Humber Bay Park is already clogged up as it is right now, and all the residents from the newest builds still havent even moved in. By the time First Capital completes their Master Plan, this area is going to be severely park deficient.

The city better be prepping an order for more fill for the lake.
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well there is a big park on the site

also can't forget 42 park lawn (MIA for the time being), the esso lot, water's edge, phoenix, 2157 lake shore (hotel) and uhh vita on the lake/vita 2 on the way
 
DopeyFish said:
well there is a big park on the site

also can't forget 42 park lawn (MIA for the time being), the esso lot, water's edge, phoenix, 2157 lake shore (hotel) and uhh vita on the lake/vita 2 on the way
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We can also add 2256 Lake Shore Blvd, and potentially 2282 Lake Shore Blvd (speculative). There are also some proposals for rear of the apartment blocks by Lake Shore and Burlington Ave.

The park on site (as nice as it is), wont even be enough to absorb the demand that the First Capital development will bring, so Humber Bay Park will remain to be a huge draw. The city screwed up yet again i'm afraid, so they better start drawing up some expansion plans to the park.
 
Amare said:
I'd never thought I would say this but it looks like First Capital's planning ability, is better than what the city's own Planning Department has been spewing out over the years. Although i'm not thrilled with all the proposed density, i'm thoroughly impressed with the amount of thought and rigorous attention to detail they've put in this plan.

I wish we could redo the entire south side development on Lake Shore all over again.
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Can someone explain what’s so impressive about this master plan? Besides the park and galleria spaces shoved between monstrous podiums and towers, I don’t see how this is the best use for the site. It looks like a future liberty village-ish condo ghetto. Can we really expect developers to invest into the public realm knowing how the rest of the city has developed?
 
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bjrkz said:
Can someone explain what’s so impressive about this master plan? Besides the park and galleria spaces shoved between monstrous podiums and towers, I don’t see how this is the best use for the site. It looks like a future liberty village-ish condo ghetto. Can we really expect developers to invest into the public realm knowing how the rest of the city has developed?
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This development will be infinite times better than Liberty Village will ever be, and will bring much much more to the table. Although i'm not a fan of the huge amount of density it will bring, it has been carefully planned out. Everything from transit, to traffic flow, to pedestrian flow, to shops, office space, schools, etc..

To put it simply, it's a true master planned community which encompasses everything that you would want to have in a community, without the need to travel out of the area to acquire a bunch of services. First Capital is willing to invest in the public realm, but unfortunately that's coming at the cost of massive amounts of density.

The problem is, the city has neglected various pieces of infrastructure for so long, and it's very rare you get developers like First Capital who are willing to address the mistakes the city made. But like I said before, the problem resolution is coming at the cost of massive density being pushed.

The city can learn a thing or two from First Capital about how to properly plan a community. Liberty Village, Humber Bay Shores, Cityplace, et.al are all relics of an era where the Planning Department couldnt plan jack properly. The city has improved planning since those times, albeit not by much in my opinion.
 
Here's the "before" image. Note the green space west of Park Lawn Road that has Mimico Creek running through it.

1594781309620.png

From link.
 
Amare said:
This development will be infinite times better than Liberty Village will ever be, and will bring much much more to the table. Although i'm not a fan of the huge amount of density it will bring, it has been carefully planned out. Everything from transit, to traffic flow, to pedestrian flow, to shops, office space, schools, etc..
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They've even accounted for wind flow and sunlight with their street and building orientations.

This master plan is really top-notch from what I can tell, some of Allies & Morrison and UrbanStrategies' top work. The one real question is the density and the transit options available.

Humber Bay has a lot of parkland surrounding it. Maybe there needs to be better integration with the ravine system along the Humber and Mimico rivers.
 
In that aerial photo, the square area which abuts the rail lines is planned to be an overflow rainfall catchment area, as I understand things. I don’t know whether that can be combined with some public park use. Even if not, it would provide some wildlife refuge area, I think.

The parcel immediately behind Beyond the Sea is already publicly accessible and is prime dog walking area.

There is some scrub land to the west of Legion Road that ought be cleaned up and connected to a walkway into the bush that already exists in old Mimico. By the way, there is an old creek bed that runs through that area. Not much water flows there through much of the year. It would be interesting if the creek could be renewed. Another nature note: from time to time there are coyotes in the wooded area you see in that photo.
 
As a resident of the area, I had the opportunity to participate in the public consultation process. The proposal includes a number of developments that I ranked most highly in the process, notably, a GO Station, transit hub and schools. I was aware that the cost of these features would be greater density and, in fact, stated that in my response to one of the questionnaires. How else would these contributions to the public good be paid for?

I’m mostly content with what I see in the proposal.
 
WislaHD said:
Humber Bay has a lot of parkland surrounding it. Maybe there needs to be better integration with the ravine system along the Humber and Mimico rivers.
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Humber Bay no doubt has a lot of parkland. My concern however, is that with all the density currently in the pipeline, the existing parkland is nowhere near enough to accommodate the population influx.

Currently as it stands, the park is already bustling and that's without all the residents in the newer builds moving in yet. The other proposals that have been mentioned above (not counting this massive one by First Capital) will probably be enough to fully clog up the park. Now taking this into account, add the massive influx from this development and the end result will be in the current parkland being severely overcapacity.

This area is slated to be nearly as dense, if not even denser than St.James Town (Canada's densest neighborhood). However unlike St.James Town, at least there's actually parkland to begin with.

Unfortunately as per usual, the city hasnt adequately planned for it.
 
Amare said:
This development will be infinite times better than Liberty Village will ever be, and will bring much much more to the table. Although i'm not a fan of the huge amount of density it will bring, it has been carefully planned out. Everything from transit, to traffic flow, to pedestrian flow, to shops, office space, schools, etc..

To put it simply, it's a true master planned community which encompasses everything that you would want to have in a community, without the need to travel out of the area to acquire a bunch of services. First Capital is willing to invest in the public realm, but unfortunately that's coming at the cost of massive amounts of density.

The problem is, the city has neglected various pieces of infrastructure for so long, and it's very rare you get developers like First Capital who are willing to address the mistakes the city made. But like I said before, the problem resolution is coming at the cost of massive density being pushed.

The city can learn a thing or two from First Capital about how to properly plan a community. Liberty Village, Humber Bay Shores, Cityplace, et.al are all relics of an era where the Planning Department couldnt plan jack properly. The city has improved planning since those times, albeit not by much in my opinion.
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I have no issues with the programming of the site and the investment into transit infrastructure, it's the design/layout of the programming, streets, block sizes, and buildings that I'm questioning. Wind flow and sunlight considerations, retail, and elementary schools are all standard components of community developments, so I'm not sure how this master plan is any better. The pedestrian spaces that are squeezed in between the monolithic built forms don't look much different than what's currently east and south of the site, and those are aesthetically unpleasant spaces to spend time in IMO. I'm not convinced that the planning is any better than Cityplace, Liberty Village, or than what's currently been developed around the site but hopefully I'm proven wrong once this gets built.
 
bjrkz said:
I have no issues with the programming of the site and the investment into transit infrastructure, it's the design/layout of the programming, streets, block sizes, and buildings that I'm questioning. Wind flow and sunlight considerations, retail, and elementary schools are all standard components of community developments, so I'm not sure how this master plan is any better. The pedestrian spaces that are squeezed in between the monolithic built forms don't look much different than what's currently east and south of the site, and those are aesthetically unpleasant spaces to spend time in IMO. I'm not convinced that the planning is any better than Cityplace, Liberty Village, or than what's currently been developed around the site but hopefully I'm proven wrong once this gets built.
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Across the street, the buildings were planned. Here, the spaces between the buildings are where they are starting, and from the number of the pedestrian only areas, some sheltered and all properly lit, it's quite obvious that the public realm here will nothing at all like on the other side of Lake Shore or the other developments mentioned. There are several renderings showing the direction they are going in to prove it.

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interchange42 said:
Across the street, the buildings were planned. Here, the spaces between the buildings are where they are starting, and from the number of the pedestrian only areas, some sheltered and all properly lit, it's quite obvious that the public realm here will nothing at all like on the other side of Lake Shore or the other developments mentioned. There are several renderings showing the direction they are going in to prove it.

42
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those buildings south of lake shore are mostly building in a park without the park

absolutely no consideration on most of them for retail frontings and the ones that do make it so damn weird. there's some stores on marine parade drive, but not enough to encourage walking along the area. some don't have retail on lake shore, where there should be retail. thankfully most of the area is salvageable from the perspective of lake shore, but the side streets and the area facing the lake are forever going to be pathetic.
 
DopeyFish said:
those buildings are mostly building in a park without the park

absolutely no consideration on most of them for retail frontings and the ones that do make it so damn weird. there's some stores on marine parade drive, but not enough to encourage walking along the area. some don't have retail on lake shore, where there should be retail. thankfully most of the area is salvageable from the perspective of lake shore, but the side streets and the area facing the lake are forever going to be pathetic.
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There's a good number of restaurants across Marine Parade Drive from the park and lake now, and that side of Eau du Soleil is all retail. If you're there on any summer evening, you'll see people thronging these places now, as much as they can even with tables spread further apart, and that hasn't stopped even if some car parking spaces have been taken out to discourage thronging in the area.

Up on Lake Shore, there are supposed to be a number of 5-storey high commercial buildings constructed, although none have been yet, other than the integrated podium at Eau du Soleil (which is going all grade-school). The first application for one of the 5-storey spaces is actually for a 13-storey hotel with a restaurant at ground level, so we'll see how that goes. I expect most of the commercial development along the lake side of Lake Shore is going to be a response in some way to what gets approved and built at this site across the road. Here's hoping that as much thought is put into the commercial buildings on the lake side of Lake Shore as seems evident in the planning materials for the north side.

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