jn_12
Senior Member
That's all in hindsight. No one knew that Athens would struggle to get their games off the ground when they won them.
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Toronto 2020 - Do you think the city will put forth a bid for these Olympics?
- Thread starter toforumer
- Start date
Jayomatic
Active Member
I don't really understand why Toronto does't try to attract other large events like the X-games or Red Bull Air Race. The X games draws a huge audience and doesn't cost a fortune for venues either. Why not push for some track and field world championships. Who really cares about the Pan Am Games?
toforumer
Active Member
Maybe because those events wouldn't get the government to pour money into our city and fast track projects.
GenerationW
Senior Member
Which I find to be an incredible indictment of our local politicians since for years they haven't even been able to slow-track many much-needed projects.
Filip
Senior Member
If the COC endorses Quebec City's winter bid I will have honestly lost all faith in Canada.
How about letting another province (namely Ontario) get its chance at hosting the world's largest, and most expensive, carnival?
3 winter bids is getting too much. I know Canada is the land of ice and snow, but let's not encourage these stereotypes, shall we? They owe it to us to blast through. Personally, I would bid in 2020 and if we don't get it, again in 2024. The idea is that a)we have to make sure to keep other Canadian cities out of the loop (exactly how the COC screwed us over with Vancouver 2010 considering Toronto was definitely a frontrunner for 2012) and the chance that another North American city might take it home. We can't have these risks. Bidding costs a few million dollars, that's a given, but that kind of money is readily available. We're talking about Canada here, not Zimbabwe.
How about letting another province (namely Ontario) get its chance at hosting the world's largest, and most expensive, carnival?
3 winter bids is getting too much. I know Canada is the land of ice and snow, but let's not encourage these stereotypes, shall we? They owe it to us to blast through. Personally, I would bid in 2020 and if we don't get it, again in 2024. The idea is that a)we have to make sure to keep other Canadian cities out of the loop (exactly how the COC screwed us over with Vancouver 2010 considering Toronto was definitely a frontrunner for 2012) and the chance that another North American city might take it home. We can't have these risks. Bidding costs a few million dollars, that's a given, but that kind of money is readily available. We're talking about Canada here, not Zimbabwe.
TOareaFan
Superstar
I think that Canada (in the eyes of the IOC) is becoming the "safe haven/sure bet" for winter olympics....and I am ok with that.
There are fewer large cities/countries/economies with the geography needed to host a Winter Olympics than there are that can host a summer games.
I would suspect that we are going to be part of a semi-regular rotation of winter olympic hosts....one that can promise stability, security, broadcast and sporting infrastructure and will not see many (any?) summer hosting opportunities....now that sucks if you are a Toronto booster but from a broader Canadian sporting scene persepective....I am probably ok with that.
In reality, I wish 2010 was in Quebec and not Vancouver as it would have spread some of the winter sporting infrastructure more "evenly" east to west...but that is a minor quibble, really.
I think the COC's job is to advance the Olympic movement in Canada as a whole, not play a strategic bidding game to the benefit of any one city (Toronto).
If they do not endorse a Quebec City bid to somehow protect a Toronto bid and we never get one they have harmed their ulitmate goal....no?
As for the future of the summer games here, I am not optimistic.
2012 London
2016 Rio
2020 ????? there is no history of how the IOC would follow a South American hosting (ie. do they feel they have to leave the Americas?) My bet is that 2020 would belong to Asia......would India be ready to host the world? Is it time to return to Russia (I know technically that is Europe but it touches a lot of Asia).......Japan?
2024 You could argue it would then be ok to come back to the Americas but that would include USA and by that time they would have gone a long time without hosting an Olympics (by their standards) and the major broadcasters might push hard for America.........could also go back to Europe (it would have been 12 years since London) and cities like Paris and Rome might be interesting draws.
Who knows really but to sideline good, solid, winter bids for the maybe/crapshoot of a summer bid seems like a strategic risk for the COC
There are fewer large cities/countries/economies with the geography needed to host a Winter Olympics than there are that can host a summer games.
I would suspect that we are going to be part of a semi-regular rotation of winter olympic hosts....one that can promise stability, security, broadcast and sporting infrastructure and will not see many (any?) summer hosting opportunities....now that sucks if you are a Toronto booster but from a broader Canadian sporting scene persepective....I am probably ok with that.
In reality, I wish 2010 was in Quebec and not Vancouver as it would have spread some of the winter sporting infrastructure more "evenly" east to west...but that is a minor quibble, really.
I think the COC's job is to advance the Olympic movement in Canada as a whole, not play a strategic bidding game to the benefit of any one city (Toronto).
If they do not endorse a Quebec City bid to somehow protect a Toronto bid and we never get one they have harmed their ulitmate goal....no?
As for the future of the summer games here, I am not optimistic.
2012 London
2016 Rio
2020 ????? there is no history of how the IOC would follow a South American hosting (ie. do they feel they have to leave the Americas?) My bet is that 2020 would belong to Asia......would India be ready to host the world? Is it time to return to Russia (I know technically that is Europe but it touches a lot of Asia).......Japan?
2024 You could argue it would then be ok to come back to the Americas but that would include USA and by that time they would have gone a long time without hosting an Olympics (by their standards) and the major broadcasters might push hard for America.........could also go back to Europe (it would have been 12 years since London) and cities like Paris and Rome might be interesting draws.
Who knows really but to sideline good, solid, winter bids for the maybe/crapshoot of a summer bid seems like a strategic risk for the COC
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jn_12
Senior Member
Vancouver/Whistler had been going for the Olympics since the 60s. So technically we would have been screwing them over as much as they screwed us.
EnviroTO
Senior Member
I think submitting a bid for 2024 makes a lot of sense. The Pan Am's are in 2015 and the selection of the host for 2024 occurs in 2017 (two years later). If 2020 ends up in North America then it would make sense to hold off until 2028. If 2024 ends up in North America but not in Canada then 2032. If we are waiting to host in 2028 or 2032 it would be important to use the Pan Am facilities to host as many world championships as possible until then to keep the international sport community thinking about the city. I think 2020 will have more bids then has ever been seen before.
Riverdale Rink Rat
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QC -- when did they grow a mountain?
Now, I know that the Calgary downhill racecourse left a lot to be desired since Premier Pete wanted to build a whole new mountain, but at least it was long enough.
Where does QC put the downhill course? That's, from what I understand, been the whole issue about a QC games from the get-go. Mt. Ste. Anne isn't tall enough -- maybe now with Le Massif? Or do they go hours away to Tremblant?
Now, I know that the Calgary downhill racecourse left a lot to be desired since Premier Pete wanted to build a whole new mountain, but at least it was long enough.
Where does QC put the downhill course? That's, from what I understand, been the whole issue about a QC games from the get-go. Mt. Ste. Anne isn't tall enough -- maybe now with Le Massif? Or do they go hours away to Tremblant?
FutureMayor
Active Member
Toronto 2024 Olympic Games Bid
I can tell you with confidence that Toronto will NOT be bidding for the 2020 Olympic Games, while a bid for 2024 is a very good possibility.
A few points to consider on why Toronto will NOT be bidding for 2020:
1a) Bidding for the 2020 Summer Games begins in 2011, just one year after the Vancouver Winter Olympics. For a country our size, there is no way the international sporting community will award us another Games just 10 years apart.
b) South Africa would have a serious shot at being selected to host the 2020 Summer Games if they successfully stage the World Cup 2010 (all indications are that they will host and Durban is already preparing a 2020 Olympic bid). I would rather not have Toronto face another sentimental favourite from a continent that has not yet hosted a Games.
c) The election of the host city for 2020 Summer Games will take place in the year 2013, the 2015 Pan Am Games would not have even taken place yet and Toronto would not have yet proven itself capable of hosting a large multi-sport event.
d) The Canadian Olympic Committee would be stupid to let Quebec City to bid for the 2018 or 2022 Winter Games for the same reason given above. There is absolutely no way the International Olympic Committee (IOC) will award Canada another Winter Games so close to Vancouver 2010.
A few points to consider on why Toronto WILL be bidding for 2024:
2a) Rio won the 2016 Olympic Games by first hosting a 2007 Pan Am Games and then immediately submitting a serious Olympic bid shortly afterwards.
b) The bidding process for the 2024 Olympic Games conveniently opens in the fall of 2015 and the host city is elected in 2017 which nicely coincides with Canada’s 150th birthday celebrations.
c) Toronto should follow the same model from Rio by concentrating on staging a very successful 2015 Pan Am and then submitting a bid for the 2024Olympic Games.
d) Paris, France will likely be one of the main challengers for 2024: I don’t buy the argument that because it will be the Centennial of the 1924 Paris Games it is more likely to win. Athens of all places lost out to Atlanta for the 1996 Centennial Olympic Games. Most importantly Toronto has also proven it can beat Paris when we placed ahead of it during the 2008 bid process.
Louroz
I can tell you with confidence that Toronto will NOT be bidding for the 2020 Olympic Games, while a bid for 2024 is a very good possibility.
A few points to consider on why Toronto will NOT be bidding for 2020:
1a) Bidding for the 2020 Summer Games begins in 2011, just one year after the Vancouver Winter Olympics. For a country our size, there is no way the international sporting community will award us another Games just 10 years apart.
b) South Africa would have a serious shot at being selected to host the 2020 Summer Games if they successfully stage the World Cup 2010 (all indications are that they will host and Durban is already preparing a 2020 Olympic bid). I would rather not have Toronto face another sentimental favourite from a continent that has not yet hosted a Games.
c) The election of the host city for 2020 Summer Games will take place in the year 2013, the 2015 Pan Am Games would not have even taken place yet and Toronto would not have yet proven itself capable of hosting a large multi-sport event.
d) The Canadian Olympic Committee would be stupid to let Quebec City to bid for the 2018 or 2022 Winter Games for the same reason given above. There is absolutely no way the International Olympic Committee (IOC) will award Canada another Winter Games so close to Vancouver 2010.
A few points to consider on why Toronto WILL be bidding for 2024:
2a) Rio won the 2016 Olympic Games by first hosting a 2007 Pan Am Games and then immediately submitting a serious Olympic bid shortly afterwards.
b) The bidding process for the 2024 Olympic Games conveniently opens in the fall of 2015 and the host city is elected in 2017 which nicely coincides with Canada’s 150th birthday celebrations.
c) Toronto should follow the same model from Rio by concentrating on staging a very successful 2015 Pan Am and then submitting a bid for the 2024Olympic Games.
d) Paris, France will likely be one of the main challengers for 2024: I don’t buy the argument that because it will be the Centennial of the 1924 Paris Games it is more likely to win. Athens of all places lost out to Atlanta for the 1996 Centennial Olympic Games. Most importantly Toronto has also proven it can beat Paris when we placed ahead of it during the 2008 bid process.
Louroz
TOareaFan
Superstar
10 years is too short? Is twelve the official cut off then (1976 to 1988).
disagree for the reason shown above.
Big difference is that Rio built most (all?) of their Pan Am facilities with an Olympic bid in mind...so, essentially, they overbuilt for the Pan Ams...we are not doing that and a 15,000 seat track and field stadium (such as we are proposing) in Hamilton will do little (anything?) for an Olympic bid in Toronto.
Doubt if Canada's 150th birthday will have any effect and, as I mentioned, our Pan Am games will be on a different scale than Rio's were...sure they will put to rest the "Toronto area hasn't hosted anything" argument but they will not, directly, show our ability to host an Olympics.
I don't read much into the fact we placed ahead of Paris for 2008...those were Bejing's Olympics....and it could just be that the Euro voters saw that sooner than the Toronto backers and shifted their votes earlier for "future considerations"......other than first, your position in any previous bidding means very little (after all, were we not second for the 1996 games too?).
Much will change before any bid is necessary or contemplated....so we should just focus on a successful 2015 Pan Ams and monitor what is going on in the world and decide at the appropriate time if we wanna throw our hat in the ring again.
toforumer
Active Member
Istanbul announced today that they'll be entering the bidding race for the 2020 Olympics.
FutureMayor
Active Member
Toronto 2024 Olympic Bid
The world is a much different place compared to 1976 and 1988. The business of bidding and hosting the Olympic Games is a lot more competitive and crowded field. No matter how great Canada is at hosting, the IOC will not be awarding us a 3rd Winter Games anytime soon.
As for facilities, I never said we would be using the same venues for an Olympic Bid, if anything a new 80,000+ seat would have to be built within Toronto proper. Hosting a successful 2015 Pan Am is about strengthening Toronto’s sporting credentials to support the Olympic Bid which is what Rio 2016 did.
For the record we came third during the 1996 Olympic Bid after Atlanta and Athens. We placed 2nd during the 2008 Olympic Bid just after Beijing, and I predict we would place 1st in a Bid for the 2024 Olympic Games.
Louroz
The world is a much different place compared to 1976 and 1988. The business of bidding and hosting the Olympic Games is a lot more competitive and crowded field. No matter how great Canada is at hosting, the IOC will not be awarding us a 3rd Winter Games anytime soon.
As for facilities, I never said we would be using the same venues for an Olympic Bid, if anything a new 80,000+ seat would have to be built within Toronto proper. Hosting a successful 2015 Pan Am is about strengthening Toronto’s sporting credentials to support the Olympic Bid which is what Rio 2016 did.
For the record we came third during the 1996 Olympic Bid after Atlanta and Athens. We placed 2nd during the 2008 Olympic Bid just after Beijing, and I predict we would place 1st in a Bid for the 2024 Olympic Games.
Louroz
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TOareaFan
Superstar
I was only pointing out that there are flaws in your logic as there are with all people's "logics" (including mine) when trying to predict the outcome of some future olympic bid. I would love us to host an Olympics in Toronto....I just don't see it in the future.
Saying, for example, that the world is a different place now than it was in 1976 and 1988 is true but (IMO) you can't then point back to Athens 1996 for a historical persepective on why Paris won't win 2024.....like mutual funds, olympic bids past perfromance is no indicator of future performance!
As for Rio/Toronto Pan Am games....they did build bigger facilities as an example, they built the Estádio OlÃmpico João Havelange (the hint is in the name) which holds 45,000 for track and field....paired with the existing and renovated Estádio do Maracanã (90,000 seats) they are quite a bit ahead after their Pan Ams than we would be......I believe their pool complex was also built to be capable of hosting the Olympics (pretty sure the one we are proposing for the Pan Ams would not be large enough....would it?)......look this neither says we would win or lose....it just points out the folly of the "Rio went from Pan Ams to Olympics so we will too" argument.
FutureMayor
Active Member
Toronto 2024 Olympic Bid
Toronto bid and won the 2015 Pan Am Games BECAUSE we want to Olympic Games one day. No politican or city leader will come out and say that for fear of lighting an anti-games movement, however it is exactly what they are planning.
I'm very aware of what Rio 2007 did and that is exactly the model Toronto will be using to land us the Olympics. I also want to make clear that the new Pan Am Stadium in Hamilton is designed to be expandable and so will the Pool in Scarborough.
I also follow Olympic Bids for closely and I know for a fact that past Olympic bid results from a city do have a direct impact on a future outcome.
The point of my post was to clearly make the case on why Toronto will NOT be bidding for 2020 and why a 2024 bid was likely.
Louroz
Toronto bid and won the 2015 Pan Am Games BECAUSE we want to Olympic Games one day. No politican or city leader will come out and say that for fear of lighting an anti-games movement, however it is exactly what they are planning.
I'm very aware of what Rio 2007 did and that is exactly the model Toronto will be using to land us the Olympics. I also want to make clear that the new Pan Am Stadium in Hamilton is designed to be expandable and so will the Pool in Scarborough.
I also follow Olympic Bids for closely and I know for a fact that past Olympic bid results from a city do have a direct impact on a future outcome.
The point of my post was to clearly make the case on why Toronto will NOT be bidding for 2020 and why a 2024 bid was likely.
Louroz
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