Toronto 2 Queen West | 34.44m | 7s | Cadillac Fairview | Zeidler

1684378861017.png


Photo of the fire at 2 Queen St W. This poor building just can’t catch a break.

Source:
https://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/comments/13kl8t1
 
My understanding is that at least pre Covid the Eaton Centre garage did good business with high turnover and equally high parking rates. The garage likely prints money and that’s why CF hasn’t touched it.

CF at its core is a suburban mall owner as well - they have odd views about parking and it’s importance to retail which while applicable to a mall in Mississauga may be less so to a mall in the middle of downtown Toronto.
 
innsertnamehere said:
My understanding is that at least pre Covid the Eaton Centre garage did good business with high turnover and equally high parking rates. The garage likely prints money and that’s why CF hasn’t touched it.

CF at its core is a suburban mall owner as well - they have odd views about parking and it’s importance to retail which while applicable to a mall in Mississauga may be less so to a mall in the middle of downtown Toronto.
Click to expand...

Over in The Eaton Centre thread @AHK offered up another reason the parking hasn't been touched (they did want to)

Eaton Centre (Ongoing Renewal) | ?m | ?s | Cadillac Fairview | Zeidler

Definitely. A few years ago, I didn't own a single pair of running shoes and I wouldn't have been caught dead in public wearing a t-shirt, and now I couldn't be bothered with dress clothes. I abandoned formal clothes ages ago. Anything with a collar is just uncomfortable to me now and looks dated.
urbantoronto.ca urbantoronto.ca
 
innsertnamehere said:
My understanding is that at least pre Covid the Eaton Centre garage did good business with high turnover and equally high parking rates. The garage likely prints money and that’s why CF hasn’t touched it.
Click to expand...

The question isn't whether it makes money, but if it makes more or comparable amounts to having retail there, and whether those using the parking are further spending money in the mall, or parking for other nearby reasons (offices, St. Mike's, etc.). My suspicion is that retail probably wins out in that regard, but CF know the numbers. But really, do you want to be the parking lot for everything else in the area? Especially in a prime transit location that only stands to get even more transit friendly with the Ontario Line.

innsertnamehere said:
CF at its core is a suburban mall owner as well - they have odd views about parking and it’s importance to retail which while applicable to a mall in Mississauga may be less so to a mall in the middle of downtown Toronto.
Click to expand...
All over the GTA, malls—including other CF ones like Sherway Gardens and Fairview—are in the beginning processes of redeveloping their parking lots into more retail and housing. I don't see why CF wouldn't consider it at what is arguably their flagship mall in Ontario.
 
zang said:
The question isn't whether it makes money, but if it makes more or comparable amounts to having retail there, and whether those using the parking are further spending money in the mall, or parking for other nearby reasons (offices, St. Mike's, etc.). My suspicion is that retail probably wins out in that regard, but CF know the numbers. But really, do you want to be the parking lot for everything else in the area? Especially in a prime transit location that only stands to get even more transit friendly with the Ontario Line.


All over the GTA, malls—including other CF ones like Sherway Gardens and Fairview—are in the beginning processes of redeveloping their parking lots into more retail and housing. I don't see why CF wouldn't consider it at what is arguably their flagship mall in Ontario.
Click to expand...
They are indeed redeveloping - but if you look carefully at those plans the parking is typically replaced in structured garages to ensure that overall parking access for the malls are not reduced.
 
innsertnamehere said:
They are indeed redeveloping - but if you look carefully at those plans the parking is typically replaced in structured garages to ensure that overall parking access for the malls are not reduced.
Click to expand...
But those malls are generally not located near anything else and are almost always near a highway or a stroad, and require parking. I'm very curious as to how much EC parking is actually used by people going to the Eaton Centre.
 
The Eaton Centre has more office space than retail. In total, there's something like 2.7 million square feet of commercial space. There will be parking commitments to office tenants and some parking is needed for customers/ employees. Transit in Toronto isn't convenient for many neighbourhoods or is it as convenient as driving for a group or family with children. It wouldn't be premium retail to replace the multi-storey garage with retail. The west side podium of the Eaton Centre is primarily office and predictions are a surplus of office space across North America for many years to come. There are similar predictions for retail
 
zang said:
But those malls are generally not located near anything else and are almost always near a highway or a stroad, and require parking. I'm very curious as to how much EC parking is actually used by people going to the Eaton Centre.
Click to expand...
I imagine the vast majority of visitors to the mall are not driving, but with 50 million annual visitors to the mall (136,000 a day!) - even if 1% of those visitors are driving, you need around a thousand parking spaces.

As others have mentioned - many tenants have leasing requirements for parking access as well, and anecdotally as someone who used to live 2 blocks east of the Eaton Centre, most people who park in the area who are not going to the mall are not parking at the mall as it's basically the single most expensive garage in the area at $28/day vs. many lots to the east being ~$20.

I'm sure CF has looked into redeveloping the garage, but have chosen not to for many reasons be it supporting the mall, leasing agreements, etc.
 
innsertnamehere said:
I imagine the vast majority of visitors to the mall are not driving, but with 50 million annual visitors to the mall (136,000 a day!) - even if 1% of those visitors are driving, you need around a thousand parking spaces.

As others have mentioned - many tenants have leasing requirements for parking access as well, and anecdotally as someone who used to live 2 blocks east of the Eaton Centre, most people who park in the area who are not going to the mall are not parking at the mall as it's basically the single most expensive garage in the area at $28/day vs. many lots to the east being ~$20.

I'm sure CF has looked into redeveloping the garage, but have chosen not to for many reasons be it supporting the mall, leasing agreements, etc.
Click to expand...
In fact, back before the City was more supportive of zero-parking residential buildings, the tower that was proposed on this site was cancelled because CadFair Commercial would not give over any parking to CarFair Residential, citing lease commitments to the retailers below that there'd be spots for their customers to park in.

42
 
You must log in or register to post here.

Back
Top