Toronto 175 Cummer | 10.49m | 3s | City of Toronto | Montgomery Sisam

sunnyraytoronto said:
Amendment carries,.... next Audit of Housing Secretariat on Modular Housing at end of next year,...
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It's a good start by Councillor Cheng, but to rebuild trust, I hope she would go further by proposing a motion to have a thorough investigation on the current ongoing modular projects to see what went wrong, and where did the money go.
 
taikou said:
I hope she would go further by proposing a motion to have a thorough investigation on the current ongoing modular projects to see what went wrong, and where did the money go.
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from what i read in the 19 numbered requests (with sub-articles within each of them) in the city council motion, many of them are demanding exactly that. there was a lot in it about examining the procurement procedures and assessing who got what money. i may be wrong, and if anybody can clarify that would be helpful. but Taikou, if you read or re-read that link posted to the city council motion, you might find reassurance that's exactly what they're going for.

it really seems like a very intentional push to hold the paid staff accountable. and, Abi Bond's line seems to be "but i was told to do it fast". but, as Lily Cheng said "haste makes waste".

here's a video about the council motion, which might explain a bit more also
 
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Modular Housing looks like stacked Trailer Park Homes,...
- Trailer Park Homes are cheap because all that's needed is tow to site and park anywhere
- Modular Housing are stacked on top of each other,... requires strong concrete foundation, and crane to lift for installation,.... these differences add costs,...

Prior to Toronto, Abi Bond was in charged of Modular Supportive Housing in Vancouver,... she's supposed to be a Modular Supportive Housing Guru,... she's supposed to be able to deliver this innovative housing much cheaper,... but this Audit shows, she can't deliver!

There's a reason why the Private sector isn't building low-rise Modular Units! There's a reason why the Private (for Profit) sector continues to build low-rise the conventional way!

175Cummer_Audit2.png

Page 19: https://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2023/au/bgrd/backgroundfile-237804.pdf
 
sunnyraytoronto said:
Modular Housing looks like stacked Trailer Park Homes,...
- Trailer Park Homes are cheap because all that's needed is tow to site and park anywhere
- Modular Housing are stacked on top of each other,... requires strong concrete foundation, and crane to lift for installation,.... these differences add costs,...

Prior to Toronto, Abi Bond was in charged of Modular Supportive Housing in Vancouver,... she's supposed to be a Modular Supportive Housing Guru,... she's supposed to be able to deliver this innovative housing much cheaper,... but this Audit shows, she can't deliver!

There's a reason why the Private sector isn't building low-rise Modular Units! There's a reason why the Private (for Profit) sector continues to build low-rise the conventional way!

View attachment 494095
Page 19: https://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2023/au/bgrd/backgroundfile-237804.pdf
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Of the above; the supply chain issues have effected the broader industry and are somewhat more understandable; though schedule slippage likely exacerbated these a fair bit; you would expect the cost at time of approval to hold for a few months.

An improper understanding of soil conditions before carrying out design work is a problem, and one that ought not to be repeated.

I'm not sure what to make of the association between a cost overrun and a height increase; IF the height increase delivered additional units, then the cost per ft2 may not have climbed as much, but if the change was made for some other reason, and didn't result in new new units, then we have a different problem.
 
Small tidbits of news here..........

The OLT Case Management Conference was on June 29th, as previously noted by @HousingNowTO

The procedural order to arise out of that was issued July 14th.

It can be found here:


This was just the CMC, and not the Merit Hearing, which is scheduled for November.

Just the same, we can glean a couple of things.

'Voices of Willowdale' was added as participant, in addition to the BCNA. They are also opponents of this proposal.

1690303209029.png


Mr. Gillespie is the rep for 'Voices of Willowdale', being referenced above.

The City will simply call its Planner, one witness. As can be seen, opponents will call either 2 or 3 witnesses, their own planner and a social service expert and possibly one other.

****

Now, this next bit is more interesting.


1690303359503.png


As a non-lawyer, and one not briefed on this case by the appellants, I offer my thought that the issue, as put forward is going to be a very high hill to climb.

The Tribunal member seems to observe as much, both in noting the interperability of the term 'compatible' but also issue requiring context linking it to the OP.
 
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Northern Light said:
Small tidbits of news here..........

The OLT Case Management Conference was on June 29th, as previously noted by @HousingNowTO

The procedural order to arise out of that was issued July 14th.

It can be found here:


This was just the CMC, and not the Merit Hearing, which is scheduled for November.

Just the same, we can glean a couple of things.

'Voices of Willowdale' was added as participant, in addition to the BCNA. They are also opponents of this proposal.

View attachment 494862

Mr. Gillespie is the rep for 'Voices of Willowdale', being referenced above.

The City will simply call its Planner, one witness. As can be seen, opponents will call either 2 or 3 witnesses, their own planner and a social service expert and possibly one other.

****

Now, this next bit is more interesting.


View attachment 494863

As a non-lawyer, and one not briefed on this case by the appellants, I offer my thought that the issue, as put forward is going to be a very high hill to climb.

The Tribunal member seems to observe as much, both in noting the interperability of the term 'compatible' but also issue requiring context linking it to the OP.
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The case is a farce, and they are grasping at straws... but at least they "keep the modular housing residents away from the McMansions" for another Winter...
 
Allandale25 said:
175 Cummer Ave question asked by the ONDP yesterday in Question Period. Time marked link:

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The question was loaded (understandably, but nonetheless, not phrased to allow the Minister to give a serious response)

In turn Mr. Calandra did what he was famous for in Ottawa, and he deflected, in a highly partisan counter-attack.

This sort of juvenile nonsense ought not have a place in our politics; though it does, in parliament and most/all legislatures across the country, sadly.

I want opposition politicians to hold government to account, but I want them to ask questions in such a way that the government might feel the need to give a serious answer.

Likewise, I would like those in government to endeavour to give serious and fulsome answers, instead engaging in antics/theatrics. What a waste of my money those this lot can engage in school yard taunts.
 
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^ Just out of curiosity, I wonder what owner across the street referenced in the question is opposing this?
 
Allandale25 said:
^ Video was removed but Sean tweeted highlights starting here:

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i watched the video, and read those tweets in the link, and am amazed at how different they seem to be.
maybe Sean truly thought he's describing what he heard, but humans can be so clouded by bias that they distort or cherrypick what they're hearing. this was an interesting example of cognitive dissonance, projection and fantasy, being presented as 'reporting'.
while listening i found that both sides were presenting a range of reasonable and convincing things for the adjudicator to consider. and, i still believe democracy should involve trying to listen to and understand each other instead of choosing a team and just saying yay for everything they say, boo to the enemy (who is obviously just pure evil incarnate, with nothing possibly worth listening to). also, it really seemed like things at the tribunal level have their own specific form for how things are done, and an average listener could be completely missing all the nuance of how lawyers and experts play their game together. the expert witnesses for both city + appellant are people who professionally appear at 100s of these OLT/OMB hearings! fascinating to hear how our mundane world is shaped by decisions in this tribunal world. my sense is that Sean is far too ignorant and biassed to be trusted for getting any sense of what was happening there (and, me too, but i feel at least honest enough to listen to both sides with a bit more openness)

sad that the video is unavailable now, it was the one where closing arguments were made to sum up what they got from the evidence, and their stance on why and how housing like this could be built, and where the city planners' ambitions might have limits
 
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