ssiguy2
Senior Member
Now I understand that the streetcar order could be "delayed" but god only knows what will happen in 3 days. Toronto transit plans seem to break down as soon as they are announced and this is why most Torontonians won't believe that even Eglinton will be built until the ribbon is cut.
Transit planning in Toronto seems to be nothing short of lunacy and it has to stop.
If I was McGuinty I would be cancelling every single dime promised until Toronto finally decides what it's doing.
He should cancel any funding for the Eglinton LRT and lay out a plan for mass/rapid transit for the entire GTA/Hamilton with strings attached. It should offer $10 billion by 2022 but only if the people of the GTA the cough up the remaining 35% and 15% by the feds. A truly massive plan to get an area of over 10,00,000 by 2030 moving.
All areas must benefit which is only fair as they will also be footing some of the bill.
The plan` should be very clear with technology, route, at grade/elevated/subway so know one could bitch that they aren't getting what they were promised.
The Plan:
All these lines MUST have complete grade separation so they can all be automated and must be either subway, SkyTrain, or monorail but not LRT as it has the lowest capcoity of the 4 and is the most expensive to build and takes longer to build when totally grade separated due to overhead wires and the trains have the shortest life expectancy.
A] Brampton----Pearson------Eglinton-------Kingston------UT Scar------Pickering
B} Extend BD west to connect with new Miss/Brampton LRT
C} Extend Yonge north north of HWY#7
D} DRL...Egl/DM.....Pape....Union.....DundasWest.....Weston....Woodbine......Humber
E} Sheppard........west to Spadina Ext and if there are any funds left from lines within the City of Toronto can be used for east ext to STC
F} Keep SRT as SkyTrain while extending it to Malvern, lengthening stations, improving Kennedy , heat the rails, buy MK11 trains
Following using ROW & mixed traffic using LRT
A} Dundas.....Hamilton........Stoney Creek
B} Hamilton........Burlington
C} Miss--------Brampton
D} Oshawa.....Whitby
It should be stated VERY clearly that it is a package deal and that any region that does not support it with 51% gets zero money including if the funding was already announced. ie if Miss does not get support from it's citizens then the Miss/Brampton LRT is cancelled.
Make it clear that the sales tax levied will be exactly the same as the HST and will effect all areas at, for example, 0.5%. 100% of the funding will go towards rapid transit construction and there will be an additional , for example, 6 cents/litre at the pump half of which will go towards their OWN local transit service ongoing operational costs and the other half for GO operational expenses. Make it clear that any other regions that want to get new GO service or it improved {ie Guelph/Niagara/Waterloo} must pay the 6 cents/liter as well. It must also be stated that if Waterloo or Ottawa want rapid transit funds they too must pay a percentage sales tax so Toronto won't been seen as having to pay for something that they won't have to.
Finally it is essential that all lines be completed by 2022 and that the sales tax will drop off at that time. It is essential that the taxpayers know that the money is going to nothing else except mass/rapid transit.
A complete package deal, no give or take but a concise plan and it's all or nothing.
If the citizens in a plebisite agree then work should begin as soon as possible in the most cost effective way possible so people don't see it as yet another tax that they won't benefit from. A clear map downloadable or at the local library where people can see the plan in clear manner with the technology being used, stations, which sections will be at grade, elevated, rail ROW, underground and when those sections will begin construction and when they will open with none later that 2022.
A simple yes or no plebisite showing the plan and so that if it doesn't get 51% region wide they get no money for anything and if 51% is reached but not one area {ie Halton} then they get no money at all.
This is what Toronto and Queen's Park should do and let the citizens put tons of pressure on the feds with all their new GTA MPs.
The Toronto Star should be first by doing a poll about such an idea and if most support it then discussions should begin immediately and a plebisite within 2 months and all the taxes to kick in Jan 2012.
Toronto needs great transit but it is unfair to expect that all Ontarians pay 100% of it.
Toronto could easily build such a system in 10 years and with a plebesite with a clear unambiguous plan will be above local political whims and use other cities as examples that use such revenue streams for their mass transit expansion such as L.A.
It really is time for Torontonians to put their money where their industrial size mouths are. It will cost the province more money but more importantly it gets extra infrastructure and operational funding and forces the fed to step up to the plate.
This message should be sent to a Toronto Star executive so maybe they would do such a poll.
Transit planning in Toronto seems to be nothing short of lunacy and it has to stop.
If I was McGuinty I would be cancelling every single dime promised until Toronto finally decides what it's doing.
He should cancel any funding for the Eglinton LRT and lay out a plan for mass/rapid transit for the entire GTA/Hamilton with strings attached. It should offer $10 billion by 2022 but only if the people of the GTA the cough up the remaining 35% and 15% by the feds. A truly massive plan to get an area of over 10,00,000 by 2030 moving.
All areas must benefit which is only fair as they will also be footing some of the bill.
The plan` should be very clear with technology, route, at grade/elevated/subway so know one could bitch that they aren't getting what they were promised.
The Plan:
All these lines MUST have complete grade separation so they can all be automated and must be either subway, SkyTrain, or monorail but not LRT as it has the lowest capcoity of the 4 and is the most expensive to build and takes longer to build when totally grade separated due to overhead wires and the trains have the shortest life expectancy.
A] Brampton----Pearson------Eglinton-------Kingston------UT Scar------Pickering
B} Extend BD west to connect with new Miss/Brampton LRT
C} Extend Yonge north north of HWY#7
D} DRL...Egl/DM.....Pape....Union.....DundasWest.....Weston....Woodbine......Humber
E} Sheppard........west to Spadina Ext and if there are any funds left from lines within the City of Toronto can be used for east ext to STC
F} Keep SRT as SkyTrain while extending it to Malvern, lengthening stations, improving Kennedy , heat the rails, buy MK11 trains
Following using ROW & mixed traffic using LRT
A} Dundas.....Hamilton........Stoney Creek
B} Hamilton........Burlington
C} Miss--------Brampton
D} Oshawa.....Whitby
It should be stated VERY clearly that it is a package deal and that any region that does not support it with 51% gets zero money including if the funding was already announced. ie if Miss does not get support from it's citizens then the Miss/Brampton LRT is cancelled.
Make it clear that the sales tax levied will be exactly the same as the HST and will effect all areas at, for example, 0.5%. 100% of the funding will go towards rapid transit construction and there will be an additional , for example, 6 cents/litre at the pump half of which will go towards their OWN local transit service ongoing operational costs and the other half for GO operational expenses. Make it clear that any other regions that want to get new GO service or it improved {ie Guelph/Niagara/Waterloo} must pay the 6 cents/liter as well. It must also be stated that if Waterloo or Ottawa want rapid transit funds they too must pay a percentage sales tax so Toronto won't been seen as having to pay for something that they won't have to.
Finally it is essential that all lines be completed by 2022 and that the sales tax will drop off at that time. It is essential that the taxpayers know that the money is going to nothing else except mass/rapid transit.
A complete package deal, no give or take but a concise plan and it's all or nothing.
If the citizens in a plebisite agree then work should begin as soon as possible in the most cost effective way possible so people don't see it as yet another tax that they won't benefit from. A clear map downloadable or at the local library where people can see the plan in clear manner with the technology being used, stations, which sections will be at grade, elevated, rail ROW, underground and when those sections will begin construction and when they will open with none later that 2022.
A simple yes or no plebisite showing the plan and so that if it doesn't get 51% region wide they get no money for anything and if 51% is reached but not one area {ie Halton} then they get no money at all.
This is what Toronto and Queen's Park should do and let the citizens put tons of pressure on the feds with all their new GTA MPs.
The Toronto Star should be first by doing a poll about such an idea and if most support it then discussions should begin immediately and a plebisite within 2 months and all the taxes to kick in Jan 2012.
Toronto needs great transit but it is unfair to expect that all Ontarians pay 100% of it.
Toronto could easily build such a system in 10 years and with a plebesite with a clear unambiguous plan will be above local political whims and use other cities as examples that use such revenue streams for their mass transit expansion such as L.A.
It really is time for Torontonians to put their money where their industrial size mouths are. It will cost the province more money but more importantly it gets extra infrastructure and operational funding and forces the fed to step up to the plate.
This message should be sent to a Toronto Star executive so maybe they would do such a poll.