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The Tenor (10 Dundas St E, Ent Prop Trust, 10s, Baldwin & Franklin)

  • Thread starter billy corgan19982
  • Start date
It's the truth, if you travel to those great cities, you'd feel envious 'How can our city not be like this?'

Toronto has been relying too much on its reputation as the city with friendly and diverse people. OK the world has known that about us since the 40-50s, now how bout some serious investing on our architectures and cultural institutions. Even a small city like Bilbao willing to invest for a 'real' Gehry, not like the 'half' one we have here

:(

We are blessed with a lake front, look what happened to it. Look at what other cities have done to their waterfront; Chicago, New York, Zurich, London, Paris, Barcelona, Sydney, etc, etc.

Sad

:(
 
It's the truth, if you travel to those great cities, you'd feel envious 'How can our city not be like this?'

Toronto has been relying too much on its reputation as the city with friendly and diverse people. OK the world has known that about us since the 40-50s, now how bout some serious investing on our architectures and cultural institutions. Even a small city like Bilbao willing to invest for a 'real' Gehry, not like the 'half' one we have here

:(

We are blessed with a lake front, look what happened to it. Look at what other cities have done to their waterfront; Chicago, New York, Zurich, London, Paris, Barcelona, Sydney, etc, etc.

Sad

:(


I'm with 3D here. Cut the tired 'Toronto doesn't have a skyline argument because its insupportable fluff.

You mention a number of 'world class' cities which feature skylines superior to ours. The fact is that if you saw parts of those 'skylines' (who doesn't love ambiguous terms!?) which you didn't instantly recognize, (i.e. those with 'landmarks') you would not be able to identify the corresponding city at all. Bilbao was hit hard financially by Gehry's sumptuous gallery in the initial period after its construction. True, they have recovered and made a healthy profit since then but when people choose to vacation there, they find that the town offers little beyond their 'landmark' structure.

Furthermore...on the subject of waterfronts...

Chicago - While Chicago has made great strides in the improvement of their waterfront, this has not always been the case. Chicago has had a long history with aquatic pollution, both in their river and on their waterfront.

New York - Same as above. Overall, very good but with many rough spots (and terrible water quality)

Zurich - Do you really think its fair to compare a city formed in the second century with Toronto which didn't exist until midway through the eighteenth? Furthermore, do you think its fair to compare a lake primarily fed with alpine runoff (pretty damn pure) and which has a residence time of 440 days? Lake Ontario has a residence time of 6 years! Not even close sister.

London - Horrific water quality, excellent bridges and not much else.

Paris - Horrific water quality, excellent bridges and a whole lot more!

Barcelona - Seriously? You're going to compare us with Barcelona? An almost tropical vacation town, first settled in the 3rd century vs. 'Toronto: Open 5 Months of the Year.' Plus it's on the Med; the friggin MED!

Sydney - Swing and a miss; thats 0 for 7 Petra. Another tropical city on a large body of salt water. The city itself is a little closer in both size and composition but even that's a stretch.


What I'm trying to say is that Toronto has a fantastic skyline which we should all be proud of. If that's not enough for you, how about memorizing where every project is going (you should already have a rough idea from this forum) and each time you get a scenic 'skyline' shot, imagine what it will look like in four or five years.

You are right to point out that Toronto has a lot of growing to do, but you are wrong to question what progress we have already made. What you don't seem to realize is that there is a distinct difference between acute, constructive criticism, and the blanket defamation which you adamantly champion.
 
Each city is unique in it's own way. Each city will develop in it's own way. What's good for one city will not necessarily work in another. Each city has a unique history, a different climate, political makeup and international influence, different people, different attitudes, different culture, and unique levels of affluence.

It's good to study what other cities are doing by all means, but be careful when implementing those programmes. They need to be tailored to meet the needs of the people, and the concerns of the business communities involved also need to be considered.

From the way you wrote it, I am concerned that you think all the decisions should be made by elite urban planners, and other high brow intellectuals with agendas forcing their opinions on us. Environmental extremists are just as dangerous as any extremist.


There is absolutely nothing – nothing – wrong with operating hybrid taxis in any city, regardless of its history, climate, political makeup, international influence, people, attitudes, culture, and affluence.
I don’t see any harm done by implementing a project like that… unless you, for some reason, intentionally wish to spew carbon emissions into the air and enjoy looking at the skyline bathed in smog, or like to drive a Hummer.

… and for the record, I’d much rather prefer to live in an environmentally extremist society (if there is one) rather than Los Angeles, for example.
 
Maybe the whole problem is that your "what is the heart of downtown Toronto" argument is a splitting-hairs hack argument.
I’m not sure why you refuse to admit that Yonge and Dundas is in the heart of downtown.
Most of it is based on cold and concrete mathematics, the intersection experiences far more pedestrian traffic than either NPS or King+Bay. Also, the intersection is relatively close to almost all major attractions and points of interest/importance, as well as being equidistant between Bloor and the lake, normally perceived to respectively correspond to the northern and southern borders of downtown Toronto.
Possible alternatives like NPS and King+Bay, like I previously mentioned, don’t even enjoy exclusive subway stations, a nice thing to have for the most central intersection in Canada’s biggest city! Furthermore, the former feels cold and desolate, while the latter is dead after 5PM.

Considering how simple my initial assertion was, I’m truly amazed at how people can successfully tolerate your stubbornness!


Like, there has to be one, specific, all-purpose "heart of it all"--well, maybe the closest spiritual candidate is (naturally) Nathan Phillips Square, and it isn't perfect, but what is? Ultimately, "heart of the downtown" urban logic only serves dumb tourists and Sunday painter urbanists, anyway.
So cities like Moscow, Brussels, Milan, and any other city that has a central square (hundreds to mentions) are all just for “dumb tourists” and “Sunday painter urbanists”?

What a horrendously idiotic comment!

There is absolutely nothing wrong with having a physical urban heart. A common pattern that can be detected in most European cities today (if you’ve ever been in one) is that of embeddidness and inclusiveness. Until recently, European cities have always been restricted to grow within their historical fortified walls, in the centre of which lies the church or cathedral, which is surrounded by ring upon ring of buildings extending outward in concentric circles. Everything is tightly knit together with little space separating neighbours. Those places of worship were purposefully in the very centre of their communities, where all social, economic, and religious life took place.
To this day, medieval central squares serve essentially the same purpose they did centuries ago, and impeccably so. They provide a sense of belonging and collectiveness, and are home to numerous festivals, celebrations, and activities.
True, economically and religiously, they don't have the same importance anymore, but socially is where they excel.


And Toronto, with its Jane Jacobs legacy-and-it-shows, isn't worthy of such positive-minded field-trip study and analysis?
As of this moment, hardly.
Nowadays, the city seems to be doing its best to obliterate Jacob’s vision and eclipse her dream… a far cry from when we thwarted the Spadina Expressway. Otherwise, we wouldn’t be having this discussion about TLS in this thread.
 
Agreed cancerous.

I'm confident if you were to take a poll of Torontonians, they would say that Yonge & Dundas is the undisputed heart of Toronto.
 
If Torontonians chose Yonge & Dundas as the heart of Toronto by a wide margin would that not make it the undisputed heart of Toronto?
 
Agreed cancerous.

I'm confident if you were to take a poll of Torontonians, they would say that Yonge & Dundas is the [...] heart of Toronto.

But just so we're on the same page, that would constitute the only thing we are in consensus about, and there is where I draw the line.
No offence or anything.
 
I suppose you're right. But anyone who chooses to dispute it in the face of the support of popular opinion should question the wisdom of their choice.

That sentence doesn't even make sense. And even if it did (by removing 'of the support of'), that is such a ludicrous thing to say, I'm not sure anyone would take you seriously. Our existence is built on the ability for us to choose our own path, our favorite colour, our bank, our spouse, and even favorite buildings. When you say that those who think beyond the boundaries of showboaty-commercialism should question their choice, you end up looking like the one with blinders on.
 
That sentence doesn't even make sense. And even if it did (by removing 'of the support of'), that is such a ludicrous thing to say, I'm not sure anyone would take you seriously. Our existence is built on the ability for us to choose our own path, our favorite colour, our bank, our spouse, and even favorite buildings. When you say that those who think beyond the boundaries of showboaty-commercialism should question their choice, you end up looking like the one with blinders on.

Lol, you have the ability to choose anything you want. You have the ability to choose King and Jameson as the heart of Toronto for all I care. You have the ability to choose Timmins as the financial capital of Canada. Whether anyone would take you seriously is another matter.

So putting aside your philosophical rambling and misplaced indignation at me depriving you of your democratic life and blood, what I am saying is that if you choose to dispute something against the opinion of the majority, and against better reason, than you should step back and, that's right, question the wisdom of your choice.

It's a part of what becoming a better and smarter human being is about. But if you choose to go down the path of ignorance than again that's your choice! Don't say I don't give you choices!

;)
 
So cities like Moscow, Brussels, Milan, and any other city that has a central square (hundreds to mentions) are all just for “dumb tourists†and “Sunday painter urbanists�

What a horrendously idiotic comment!

There is absolutely nothing wrong with having a physical urban heart. A common pattern that can be detected in most European cities today (if you’ve ever been in one) is that of embeddidness and inclusiveness. Until recently, European cities have always been restricted to grow within their historical fortified walls, in the centre of which lies the church or cathedral, which is surrounded by ring upon ring of buildings extending outward in concentric circles. Everything is tightly knit together with little space separating neighbours. Those places of worship were purposefully in the very centre of their communities, where all social, economic, and religious life took place.
To this day, medieval central squares serve essentially the same purpose they did centuries ago, and impeccably so. They provide a sense of belonging and collectiveness, and are home to numerous festivals, celebrations, and activities.
True, economically and religiously, they don't have the same importance anymore, but socially is where they excel.

It's one thing to celebrate this kind of traditional medieval European urbanism. It's another to "force the issue" upon Toronto, or to overjudge our abject urban failure on these counts.

At this point, you're starting to sound like the kind of PPS (or even Jane Jacobite) "tear down the Nathan Phillips Square walkways" lunatic fringe....
 
It's one thing to celebrate this kind of traditional medieval European urbanism. It's another to "force the issue" upon Toronto, or to overjudge our abject urban failure on these counts.

At this point, you're starting to sound like the kind of PPS (or even Jane Jacobite) "tear down the Nathan Phillips Square walkways" lunatic fringe....

Actually, what happened was that you simply lost the argument.

Anyways... I'll let your imagination run free, it's fun watching you try desperately to figure me out.
 
May 16

Not the best picture, but the patio looks nice, and there's pictures in this weeks issue of NOW magazine too.

2497991715_79ce7d8032_b.jpg


Jack Astor's Patio now open, with trees!
 

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