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The CityRail Concept: Real Regional Rail for the GTA

dunkalunk said:
If we're going to be labelling the services we ought to be naming them under names that can be understood by an outsider to the network:

GO Local: frequent EMUs with infill stations (2-4 km spacing, 15 minutes)
GO Regional: Similar to today's commuter network (4-10 km spacing, 30 minutes)
GO Express: Intercity Service to replace what is lost by VIA (if GO expands it's mandate to run more intercity-type service throughout Southern Ontario) (10km+ spacing)
Click to expand...

GO, by definition is already an express service, while agencies like the TTC and MiWay The New Mississauga Transit are local services. Having a GO Local and GO Express brandings doesn't make sense to me.

"Regional Express", REX, works does help to separate service from the regular commuter rail and subwaya dn streetcars. Plus it's catchy. That said, the use of the word "regional" for this type of rail service is not strictly correct either, especially considering that these sort of high-frequency suburban rail services would not go too far into the suburbs - the range would more limited than traditional commuter rail. It wouldn't be a good idea to provide this level of service to Georgetown or Barrie, for example.

I guess the Brand doesn't need to super technical or descriptive. The metro system in Chicago is just called "L" for example. "CityRail" does sound good in German (Stadtbahn, aka. "S-Bahn"), but in English it doesn't work quite as well...
 
As far as acronyms go, REX is a good one, although I'd encourage the independent pronunciation of the letters "R E X" it sounds better than the giant lizard king.
 
dunkalunk said:
As far as acronyms go, REX is a good one, although I'd encourage the independent pronunciation of the letters "R E X" it sounds better than the giant lizard king.
Click to expand...

I think I'd either go with "GO REX" (like the dinosaur), or "GO R-EX" (pronounced "are ex").

At the end of the day though, it just needs to be a decent marketing name. The way the service is implemented I think is much more important (which lines get upgraded, frequencies, station location, etc).
 
Recap

Lets recap what we've talked about in this CityRail thread so far:

- We've discussed about whether or not GO REX is a good name
- We've proposed new names for GO REX
- We've talked about creating a new Metropolitan Toronto government covering Toronto, York, Durham, Peel and Halton
- We've talked about putting the TTC in charge of transit in Mississauga, Brampton, Vaughan, Richmond Hill, Markham, Pickering and Ajax
- We've talked about renaming current GO services
- We've discussed the future NDP government and whether or not they'll be creating a High Speed Rail network in Canada
- And finally we've talked about whether or not the Tyrannosaurus Rex is a lizard or not.

It seems like we've discussed everything BUT the actual CityRail plan in this thread.

So who wants to talk about this awesome weather we've been having lately? :D

PS: I'll admit that the naming discussion is vaguely related. But I still think that we can all agree that that the actual plan is far more important then it's name.
 
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TheTigerMaster said:
Lets recap what we've talked about in this CityRail thread so far:

- We've discussed about whether or not GO REX is a good name
- We've proposed new names for GO REX
- We've talked about creating a new Metropolitan Toronto government covering Toronto, York, Durham, Peel and Halton
- We've talked about putting the TTC in charge of transit in Mississauga, Brampton, Vaughan, Richmond Hill, Markham, Pickering and Ajax
- We've talked about renaming current GO services
- We've discussed the future NDP government and whether or not they'll be creating a High Speed Rail network in Canada
- And finally we've talked about whether or not the Tyrannosaurus Rex is a lizard or not.

It seems like we've discussed everything BUT the actual CityRail plan in this thread.

So who wants to talk about this awesome weather we've been having lately? :D

PS: I'll admit that the naming discussion is vaguely related. But I still think that we can all agree that that the actual plan is far more important then it's name.
Click to expand...

Haha, yeah we have had a few off-topic discussions, and I think the naming thing is a relatively minor detail. On the last page I posted my alternative to the CityRail concept, which includes a greater distinction of what type of rail service is actually included on each corridor (http://www2.andrew.thejohnsonclan.ca/GO_REX_v2.jpg for those who missed it).

Doing discussions about Regional Rail I think are a lot different than local transit, because RR is pretty much confined to where the rail corridors already are, so there aren't any discussions about alignment (like there are with the DRL). The discussions mainly centre around what type of service for what corridor, how far out should that type of service extend, etc.

Realistically speaking, the only corridors that are capable of hosting REX at this point are the Lakeshore and Georgetown corridors.

The Stouffville corridor can be upgraded to REX-capable, but that would require grade-separations and double tracking (not exactly cheap, but doable). Same goes with the Barrie corridor, but to be honest I can't really see the demand being there for a full REX service.

The Richmond Hill corridor would need some pretty significant upgrading and realignment in order to be REX-capable. That whole section through the Don Valley is neither accessible nor very direct, and the connection possibilities with existing and planned rapid transit lines suck. With the current alignment, you hit Sheppard and that's about it. My map reroutes the line around the west side of Don Mills, for a better connection at Eglinton.

The Milton corridor is the hardest one to pinpoint, because so much of the available service level depends on freight. Any significant increase in GO service on the Milton corridor needs to be accompanied by the construction of a freight bypass between Bramlea and Lisgar. Without that, there would need to be at least 2 more tracks added into an already crammed corridor, which would be enormously expensive. IMO, diverting freight traffic off that line, even if Metrolinx has to pay to build a new line on which GO trains will never run, is a worthwhile expense compared to the alternatives.

Same thing goes for the Midtown line, because the Midtown and Milton lines are the same CP mainline. Build the freight bypass and convince CN and CP to share the York Sub (even if it means Metrolinx paying to add an extra track to that line), and you get both the Milton and Midtown lines available for GO service.

If that's the case, both of those lines would be REX-worthy. But as it stands now (and that's why my map shows what it shows), 1hr or 30 min diesel service is about all that's possible right now.
 
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dunkalunk said:
So, how are you enjoying this beautiful weather? :p
Click to expand...

Its been a little too hot and humid for my own tastes. I really prefer it when its 25°C, partly cloudy. But I have a friend from The Philippins who just loves this weather. I guess he's more used to this conditions. And it's too bad that that thunder storm Saturday morning didn't last longer. We kinda need the rain.

Wait a minute... I see what you did there :mad:
 
Does everything Toronto do have to be confusing and have cute little names? It's just part of the subway so why not call it a subway? People can read a subway map and see where the stations are, they don't need a cute anachronism to help them.

Anyway, this is what many cities do............they transfer many of their lines/corridors from commuter rail over to full Metro/subway but using DMUs. Sao Paulo has been doing this vigourously for the last 10 years with great results. Some parts of the lines are still standard GO/commuter rail especially for further suburbs but for people in more densely populated and established suburban area they are used as standard Metro. GO was great for the 1970s in Missisauga but now Miss/Brampton/York Region are so large that commuter rail does not have the capacity or frequency level that is required to service their populations.

The great thing is that not only are these types of systems much easier and faster to build but cost a fraction of standard Metro/subway. Also, as I have stated before, although I have never had much empathy for people who choose to live near rail corridors they now have a solid case for diesel pollution. Having trains run by every hour or so is one thing but having them go by every 4 minutes in rush hour like Weston {once the Airlink is built} is quite another.

These new lines must be run by the local transit a agencies and not by GO or they will have the extra fares and people will avoid them especially in Toronto just like they do now.
 
A good example of how this is done is Denver. They are currently building the Airport line and most runs along current rail corridors. They simply electrified the line, added stations, and are using DMUs. It will open in 2 years and will run every 15 minutes but has standard Denver transit fares............it's essentially part of their fast expanding LRT system but without the huge LRT cost.
 
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