The Big Bop shuts down (hideous purple building on Queen/Bathurst)

[adHominem]

Pity. I mean, the place is a craphole (as Moe Sislak would say), and I haven't been in there since I was a teen, but this is bugging me the same way Sanctuary getting turned into a Starbucks bugged me. Like all the agreeably scummy parts of downtown are being scrubbed away. Not everything has to be "nice", damn it. Maybe we should designate certain parts of town as Sleaze Preservation Areas.

 

[Edward Skira]

Before music took over it was a strip joint. The Holiday Tavern if I remember correctly.

 

[androiduk]

what's the story with united cigar stores? i've noticed them in alot of archive photos.

They were a major chain of stores that occupied most major intersections and most subway stations. They survived mainly on the sales of cigarettes and candy. Their contemporaries would be Beckers, Mac's Milk, 7 Eleven, Hasty Market & Rabba. It's kind of odd how these chains stick around for awhile then slowly dwindle down to nothing. There are very few Mac's Milk left and Hasty Market seems to be dwindling. Right now Rabba & Sobey's are king.

 

[adma]

To be fair, paint jobs aside, the worst was done to the Big Bop long before it became the Big Bop...

 

[TrickyRicky]

It's interesting how the language of this discussion uses collective language. "It's being cleaned up", "we should do this with it". Indeed, we all have collective memories of our experiences with the venue, building and corner. These however are private buildings and businesses. The decision to close down or renew etc. is entirely in the hands and in accordance with the wishes and initiatives of the property owners and their commercial tenants.

 

[adma]

Though would the Big Bop be on the heritage inventory? Surely, I can see Adam Vaughan breathing down a few necks re what'll happen to it...

 

[Towered]

I remember seeing it for the first time in the early 80's as a small child and thinking it was the weirdest looking building I'd ever seen. At that time it was painted a horrible aquamarine, with a silver/purple stripe meandering along its west side. Was it already the Big Bop then, or still a strip club? Those glass cubes in the windows scream 80's as well.

I too have mixed feelings about this. I spent many, many nights in there, enjoying various live shows and events (everything from metal concerts to dark raves, to fetish nights). It was practically ground zero for various subcultures, and very important for filling that much needed role. But boy was it ever a totally neglected dump. The inside was even more dilapidated than the outside, if you can believe it. I don't think the slightest bit of upkeep was done since probably the early 80's, or even earlier, and for a place that saw hundreds of people come through the doors every weekend and take a lot of abuse, it really showed, and the washrooms are probably the most disgusting ones I've ever seen in this city apart from the Sanctuary and Lee's Palace. I honestly felt gross every time I was in there, and wished they would at least fix it up a little bit now and then.

But the place is a lovable dump, one full of great memories for just about anyone who felt alienated by mainstream culture. It's a sad displacement. The Queen and Bathurst area has been bustling with activity and nightlife for a very long time, and it's gradually becoming a sterilized dead zone. Another famous dump where alternative types happily congregated, the Funhaus, closed last year and is now the second floor of a *YAWN* Shoppers Drug Mart. The Queenshead pub became an ugly Tim Hortons. Rok Boutique closed. Savage Garden, Toronto's only remaining club dedicated exclusively to goth music, closed last year. Cameron House is now being sold. There's a rumour that Velvet Underground will also be closing next year. Can the legendary Bovine Sex Club be far behind at this point? I suppose the Hideout is keeping the spirit alive temporarily, and some might point to the success of Tattoo Rock Parlour, but let's face it, that's a place where 905 type phoneys go to pretend that they're "edgy" - you'll never see real rockers set foot in there.

What made Queen and Bathurst so great was the critical mass of options one had in the area - it really was the "Clubland" for freaks (I don't mean that in a derogatory manner). Where will the alternative crowd find a venue, (much less a whole area) of this size now? Where will this scene migrate to? I suppose further west on Queen in Parkdale is the next logical destination, and there seem to be slight footholds taking place on Dundas west of Bathurst, but to have it spread around will probably just erode it further...

 

[Edward Skira]

I went when it still was a strip joint which would have been 1983 or 1984. It changed into a music venue soon after. It was a very down market strip joint. Nothing sexy about it but the drinks were cheap.

 

[LowPolygon]

What made Queen and Bathurst so great was the critical mass of options one had in the area - it really was the "Clubland" for freaks (I don't mean that in a derogatory manner). Where will the alternative crowd find a venue, (much less a whole area) of this size now? Where will this scene migrate to? I suppose further west on Queen in Parkdale is the next logical destination, and there seem to be slight footholds taking place on Dundas west of Bathurst, but to have it spread around will probably just erode it further...

i guess the larger question is: is there such a thing as an 'alternative crowd' anymore? given all the closings that you mentioned, it would seem that the demographic you are talking about might just be 'moving on' with their lives. there is no such thing as a 'permanent scene' because people grow up, and the next generation isn't turned on by the same things.

in this particular case, it would seem that the next generation is a lot more interested in their iPhone apps than they are goth nights at The Sanctuary….

in any case, the original Queen Street punks went through this decades ago when Larry's Hideaway, The Edge, The Turning Point and The Cabana Room all closed. As did the Yorkville hippies, as did the 'new wavers', as did the early 90's ravers, etc etc. in other words, plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose...

 

[bAuHaUs]

what's the story with united cigar stores? i've noticed them in alot of archive photos.

If you've seen the movie Paper Moon, it must have been acceptable for even 9 year old kids to smoke back then; this way they didn't have to walk far from home to buy cigs for dad and themselves....hence a UCS at every corner. Now, if someone knows the real reason why UCS was so ubiquitous then, I'd love to read the answer.

 

[Edward Skira]

Considering that half the population smoked in those days (more than double today's rate) they certainly needed more places to handle the volume.

 

[AGTO]

let's face it, that's a place where 905 type phoneys go to pretend that they're "edgy" - you'll never see real rockers set foot in there.

Yeah, too bad they're closing down ...now, where would all the 'real' cool people, like you, go?

 

[wwwebster]

Though would the Big Bop be on the heritage inventory?

It's on there as part of the Queen Street West Heritage District, but the listing doesn't say much about the building's history. Goad was a bit more helpful; the building was there in 1884, and the 1892 plan has more detail.

 

[Mike in TO]

Unfortunate to see how quickly this area is unraveling. The local scene was pretty strong for a long time and now within a short period of time it's basically collapsed with several bars all closing within a couple years of each other. I gather Velvet won't last long once the new development is completed across the street.

 

[JasonParis]

Does anyone know what the rest of the building is used for? The Big Bop itself only occupuies the corner portion of a rather large building that extends back to Richmond street.

As said, they aren't the same building. However, the Big Bop does includes three separate bars: Reverb, Kathedral and Holy Joe's.

With the impeding disappearance of of the Big Bop and the raping of Lee's Toronto certainly won't feel the same. I guess we should be really lucky that the El Mocambo survived it's near death experience back in 2001 (when I actually frequented these types of places). That place seems to be doing a really healthy business now although I'm sure investors aren't lined up to grab it anyway as it's next door to the mission.

The El Mo pretty much died in 2001. There's no second floor anymore and the first floor isn't anything like it was. In fact, despite being heavily into music myself, I haven't even been to a show there in about three years (which probably says something about its booker). Moreover, they can't even be bothered to turn their famous sign on!

Unfortunate to see how quickly this area is unraveling. The local scene was pretty strong for a long time and now within a short period of time it's basically collapsed with several bars all closing within a couple years of each other. I gather Velvet won't last long once the new development is completed across the street.

You are probably right, but there seems to be a fair number of music venues (i.e., The Garrrison) opening further west. It certainly will be a change for the Queen/Bathurst neighbourhood, but indie/alternative Toronto will soldier on.