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Streetcars are obsolete?

And empty in the back of the bus, with almost everyone getting on and, worse, off the bus using the front door only.
And I swear, the door blockers are becoming worse. They now have earphones, and stand there oblivious to the world with their iDevice in hand, standing right in front of the back doors when there's seats empty. I repeat "excuse me please" twice, louder the second time, then just push them out of the way. Then they give you the look of 'WTF?'.

They vote, they drive, they procreate. We're fugged...
 
Not sure where your numbers are from.

The numbers TTC reports are:
18-metre bus - 77
CLRV - 74
ALRV - 108
Flexity - 130

Now those aren't crush load (at which point route capacity drops, because of the excess dwell time, while people try and squish off). But when I've been on a crush-loaded CLRV, I've done the occasional head-count, and it doesn't get much above 80. I don't know how you'd get 132, unless you have a child on every lap.

You'd be very very lucky to get 77 people on an articulated bus...maybe 60-65 without excess dwell times but 77? Also, I would argue that the flexity levels are way too high; ALRVs are about the same length but don't have to deal with bogies and wasted space there.
 
You'd be very very lucky to get 77 people on an articulated bus...maybe 60-65 without excess dwell times but 77? Also, I would argue that the flexity levels are way too high; ALRVs are about the same length but don't have to deal with bogies and wasted space there.

Those numbers are the TTC's rating for maximum service. You can fit a lot more than that on any one of those vehicles - but you wouldn't want to do so for a very long time.

It's just like the subway. Sure, the TTC rates them for 1000 or 1100 people - but realistically, you can fit almost 2400 on a 6-car TR train in a pinch.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
Would like to see a safety analysis of hydrogen in underground streetcar and bus loops that TTC CNG buses were excluded from. The fuel cell infrastructure may be simpler in scale so give fewer chances of leaks via pipes etc., but hydrogen is very tricky to contain given small molecule size.
 
Would like to see a safety analysis of hydrogen in underground streetcar and bus loops that TTC CNG buses were excluded from. The fuel cell infrastructure may be simpler in scale so give fewer chances of leaks via pipes etc., but hydrogen is very tricky to contain given small molecule size.

I think that if any vehicle powered by a volatile gas comes into close proximity with overhead electrical catenary (especially when operating in a confined underground space), there should be some concern. While as mentioned earlier, Hydrogen is lighter than air, a tunnel could confine escaping gas if a fuel leak occurred.

Now it is worth noting that CNG fuel systems are rigorously designed for safety, so fires and explosions are very rare. I'm assuming a Hydrogen system could be designed similarly with safety in mind. Were the CNG buses also excluded from underground tunnels because they produce more Carbon Monoxide than their Diesel counterparts?
 
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From March 16, 2018, in the Montreal Gazette, at this link.

Mayor, premier unveil plans for $3-billion tramway for Quebec City
The Quebec and federal governments are expected to pay most of the costs

Premier Philippe Couillard and Mayor Régis Labeaume unveiled an ambitious plan Friday for a $3-billion tramway project for Quebec City.

A 23-kilometre tram line would cross the city, roughly from west to east, and will be complemented by a 17-kilometre “trambus” line and new dedicated bus lanes, all in service of easing traffic congestion, especially to the suburbs and airport.

The long-awaited project was announced alongside projections that Quebec City will see a 29 per cent increase in transit ridership by 2026 and 12,600 fewer cars on the roads.

According to the plan, construction could take eight years and partial operation could commence by 2025. The tramway will have two underground sections, one under the parliamentary building, and at least three new underground stations: Place D’Youville, Centre des congrès and au Grand Théâtre.

Couillard made an initial pledge of $215 million, toward planning and development, with Quebec and Ottawa expected to foot most of the $3-billion projected price tag. Quebec City will invest $300 million for “urban development”, including landscaping and widening sidewalks. Once rolling, the project’s annual operating costs are estimated at $155 million.

Couillard said he expects 25 per cent of the materials used to be Canadian, the maximum allowed under trade agreements, but said he would not favour Quebec company Bombardier.

“I want the presentations to be as competitive as possible,” Couillard said in response to a question.

Labeaume declared that the project would make Quebec a modern city.

He quoted Couillard as telling him, ” ‘Régis, we must see far and we must see wide.’ He didn’t have to tell me twice.”

Lévis Mayor Gilles Lehouillier is not likely as pleased as his city was not included in this initial plan. Labeaume said it will be up to his fellow mayor to campaign the provincial government.

The tram project is part of a three-prong plan to link the capital region’s south and north sectors. “We are finally coming back to a new era of major projects for Quebec,” Couillard said, mentioning the James Bay project.

Agnès Maltais, Parti-Québécois MNA for Taschereau in the Quebec City region, said the new project fits “perfectly” with her party’s goals. Likewise for Québec Solidaire, which called it a “great public transit project.” No comment, however, from the Coalition avenir Québec, which has been leading in the polls as the Oct. 1 election draws nearer.

"Couillard said he expects 25 per cent of the materials used to be Canadian, the maximum allowed under trade agreements, but said he would not favour Quebec company Bombardier."

Must be learning from the Toronto experience with Bombardier.

 

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