Star: Next issue for TTC: How to tell who's paid

[Tuscani01]

And also, something someone else mentioned... a lot of people using the LRT vehicles will be transferring to other TTC lines (bus & subway). If someone failed to pay their fare while boarding on an LRT/streetcar line, they would not be able to continue their trip without showing POP on other lines.

In this case, they would either be fined by a ticket inspector, or end up paying their fare at some other point during their commute.

 

[GraphicMatt]

I hope they don't sweat this too much. Go with a POP system like GO and hire a few people to check tickets on board. Keep track of ridership levels and revenues to get an idea of your evasion rate percentage, then hire more ticket checkers as needed.

 

[nfitz]

^ The inspector at Dundas/Spadina stays at the stop and doesn't get onto the streetcar. He just stands by the rear door and checks passes and transfers (and calls out to the driver to close the rear doors when loading is done).

That's not an inspector - that's a conductor!

Hmm, and maybe that's the short-term solution; bring back conductors. I'm sure the union would love it.

 

[golodhendil]

Nothing to do with Toronto, but on the general topic of fare evasion. A couple of days ago when I was taking the subway in Boston, I saw a fare collector at the station basically letting a guy and a girl through on only a single fare. Boston has automatic gates that only open when you swipe the smartcard. This couple basically huddled together to cross the gate after only swiping the card once. The station person was looking at them, then said, "You guys are good" and told them to go on. To which the couple replied, "Yea we like to stick together." All the while as I was paying my fare at the gate and watching them.
And this is not the first time I've seen people running the gates like that with or without being seen by the fare collectors, or drivers just letting people onto trolleys or buses from the back doors during rush hours without having them pay.

There had also been times in Toronto, either from experience or heresay, when the gates at stations are opened during rush hours to let people pass through quickly and a staff is supposed to sit there and have people put their fare into a box, that I've seen no one sitting there, collector at the booth is either missing or sleeping, and people just walk through the open gate without dropping their fare.

My point is, whatever system we have in place to fight fare evasion, the most important thing is to make sure the frontline people actually care about collecting the fare.

 

[marcus_a_j]

In T.T.C. stations that are not manned and entry is only by token or metropass, two people can go through the big metal revolving entrances at the same time. Just swipe your metropass or put in your token, huddle together and shuffle your feet at the same time. Both people would have to be average size at most, or you might get stuck.

 

[wyliepoon]

That's not an inspector - that's a conductor!

Conductors, in train terminology, sell and/or inspect tickets on board passenger trains (Wikipedia), which according to my understanding is the same as the "roving inspector" in a POP streetcar system.

Maybe I should ask that "inspector" next time what his real title is. (Passenger Service Assistant? Chief Fare Inspection Manager?)

 

[nfitz]

Conductors, in train terminology, sell and/or inspect tickets on board passenger trains (Wikipedia), which according to my understanding is the same as the "roving inspector" in a POP streetcar system.

I'd stick to bus terminology; bus conductors don't tend to leave their vehicles ... tram conductors too I'd think, but I've never seen one.

 

[Acting Minor Traitor]

Depending on how the actual Transit City stops are designed, would it be feasible to make them, essentially, micro-stations? Meaning that you would have to pay to get inside the stop, probably through the kind of automated token/Metropass system that exists at subway stations already, and so there would be no issue with paying upon boarding.

Might be especially feasible for the underground stops along Eglinton. Wouldn't be too friendly for someone who wants to pay cash, though, unless they install a token machine at every one.

 

[urbanfan89]

Depending on how the actual Transit City stops are designed, would it be feasible to make them, essentially, micro-stations? Meaning that you would have to pay to get inside the stop, probably through the kind of automated token/Metropass system that exists at subway stations already, and so there would be no issue with paying upon boarding.

Might be especially feasible for the underground stops along Eglinton. Wouldn't be too friendly for someone who wants to pay cash, though, unless they install a token machine at every one.

I don't think that is feasible given that Transit City is not designed to be grade separated.

My solution is to automate the subway stations, which will eliminate the need to pay people to collect tickets. Then reassign those same people to become fare inspectors who simply prowl the system looking for cheats.

 

[kettal]

Depending on how the actual Transit City stops are designed, would it be feasible to make them, essentially, micro-stations? Meaning that you would have to pay to get inside the stop, probably through the kind of automated token/Metropass system that exists at subway stations already, and so there would be no issue with paying upon boarding.

I think there is one of these at Exhibition's tram stop.

Proof of purchase is the way to go. Mini stations would be ugly, unfriendly and probably impossible to patrol.

 

[wyliepoon]

Depending on how the actual Transit City stops are designed, would it be feasible to make them, essentially, micro-stations?

They're big hits in Latin American and Chinese BRT systems...

Mexico City

Guangzhou (proposed)

Bogota

Beijing

 

[urbanfan89]

I doubt any Toronto arterials have half the width required to essentially build an urban expressway.

 

[waterloowarrior]

amsterdam... source http://www.citytransport.info/Fares.htm

 

[Epi]

There's probably no perfect way to do it. The best would probably be to put a lot of posters up to shame people into paying or something.

Failing that, hire a private company and let them collect 50% of all fines imposed for unpaid fares. I think pretty quickly things will run quite smooth.

 

[RedRocket191]

Tyne and Wear Metro, Newcastle upon Tyne. No way we could do something like this here due to privacy laws but it's interesting to see how much shame works.