Star: Half of GTA foreign-born

[cacruden]

I guess this would be an example of a temporal discussion where causation occurs after effect

.... The Star.... yes that newspaper .... I don't know how many telemarketting calls they have made to me and they don't learn.... I even was very direct with them that I don't consider it a newspaper worth reading .... and I get a lot of newspapers (online delivery - looks like the paper edition just read online - not the websites).

 

[TrickyRicky]

I'm also foreign born and of mixed asian and european ancestry. I really don't think most diverse really matters. The more pressing issue is ethnic and cultural harmony. This is difficult to quantify but Toronto is still doing realitively well in this regard. By a combination of good luck and geography I am actually optimistic that we will continue to do well while many other cities even in countries with high standards of living will stuggle. One of our primary benefits is that geographically or based on historical colonialism we have no major source of migrant population pressure that feels threatening to the established order. If you look at Europe, America and even Australia they are all facing overwhelming border pressures from the flow of economic migrants from adjacent regions. Canada and Toronto by contrast is like some lost colony at the end of the earth where various peoples end up as circumstance or opportunity present themselves. There is a strange kind of cultural and ethnic balance developing where many of the worlds regions are represented but none overwhelmingly so.

 

[lordmandeep]

no doubt there is much more racial harmony here then anywhere i have been in Europe or the States...

 

[scarberiankhatru]

I was born in Toronto to parents born in Toronto (that's certainly a minority of current 416ers) to Ontario-born grandparents...beyond that, I honestly don't know where all my ancestors came from. Some were potato famine trash orphans, though, which beats andreapalladio's regular potato famine trash. Most of the rest were miscellaneous French and British peasants, I guess.

How do you measure diversity? Miami has the highest percentage of foreign born of pretty much anywhere on the planet but it's almost all from a few sources. By that measure Vancouver is more diverse than London.

Miami is only "#1" becaue it has Hispanic ghettoes within its city limits and it only has 400,000 people...the foreign-born % plummets in most of its suburbs. Toronto wins when the suburbs are included. Toronto is also less segregated than most cities. Not that a newspaper would ever add this stuff to an article, though.

 

[Urban Shocker]

Born in University College Hospital, London, in 1953. Immigrated to Toronto in 1970.

My ancestry is mostly English Anglo-Saxon, with a dash of Scottish and Irish Celt, and a great-great-great grandfather from somewhere in northern Europe - probably displaced by the Napoleonic Wars - whose daughter married into my direct paternal line.

James begat John begat Henry begat Benjamin begat George begat ... moi!

 

[Zephyr]

no doubt there is much more racial harmony here then anywhere i have been in Europe or the States...

Maybe that comparison is too low a standard.

After looking at several threads on this board of late, there are certain groups, one in particular, that seem to fall outside this circle of harmony for some, and that troubles me a great deal.

I have always felt that this transition over generations into becoming a Canadian should be all inclusive, even though there may be different starting points for each person. I see no reason to abandon that goal, but it will not come without willingness and effort.

 

[lordmandeep]

true it is perhaps the only group who face a substantial amount of racism today here...

 

[adma]

Miami is only "#1" becaue it has Hispanic ghettoes within its city limits and it only has 400,000 people...the foreign-born % plummets in most of its suburbs. Toronto wins when the suburbs are included. Toronto is also less segregated than most cities. Not that a newspaper would ever add this stuff to an article, though.

Well, not merely generic Hispanic ghettoes: *Cuban* ones. Remember: Miami as the de facto parking spot for Castro refugees.

And given how Miami-Dade has something of a "unigovernment" now, I'm not even sure if the suburbs are excluded--besides, some of them, such as Hialeah, are even *more* HispanoCubified...

 

[cacruden]

no doubt there is much more racial harmony here then anywhere i have been in Europe or the States...

There is definitely more racial harmony here than in the UK, which is why I prefer not to encourage the creation of ethnically based or religiously based schools. I would prefer that if parents within a school district want some sort of religion included in school curriculum that it be done as an inclusive religions class within the school (which covers common morality themes that are part of many religions). Racism - exists and will likely continue to exist within our society for a long time to come (whether it is intended to exclude or to bend over backwards to help), and schools are a good place to start learning how to get along with others of different backgrounds.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

Well, not merely generic Hispanic ghettoes: *Cuban* ones. Remember: Miami as the de facto parking spot for Castro refugees.

And given how Miami-Dade has something of a "unigovernment" now, I'm not even sure if the suburbs are excluded--besides, some of them, such as Hialeah, are even *more* HispanoCubified...

It's not *just* Cuban ghettoes, though that is the largest group...there must be Little Nicaraguas, Petit Haitis, etc.

Yes, Miami + suburbs has less foreign-born than Toronto + suburbs, using 2000/2001 census data, at least...I remember crunching the numbers at least once on a forum thread years back. I didn't mean to imply that the suburbs are 100% apple pie Americans, but the % does drop more than in Toronto's suburbs (esp. Mississauga, Brampton, Richmond Hill, and Markham).

 

[TrickyRicky]

The reason I bring up the issue of harmony is that we seem to wear the badge of multi-culturalism as a status symbol as if shear numbers equate to "better" on a quantitative scale. But having different people living in the same city who hate each other or who are involved in simmering sectarian or racial or class struggle is a horrible thing. What I mean is that diversity doesn't necessarily equate with good. The fact that astonishing numbers of people here do equate it with good is more significant and important than anything else.

The reason I brought up the concepts of geographic and demographic luck is that I think there is a sentiment out there that there is something superior about the Canadian character that warms us to the notion of diversity. This may or may not have some points but I think it is dangerous thinking. While our approval of diversity is I believe now generally accepted in public opinion at least in the GTA I believe the reasons for this are actually circumstantial and we shouldn't assume it isn't transient.

 

[caltrane74]

My mom came to Canada in 1967 from Trinidad as a 26 Year old!!!

Canada needs more Trinidadians!!!!!!

Trinidadians are very cool and stylish. Lots of gold, gold rings, gold chains, gold earings, gold necklaces, gold rims, gold trimmed kleenex holders, gold eye glasses, gold belt buckles, gold braclets, etc, etc,

Hot Trinidadians!! (please)

 

[Hydrogen]

gold trimmed kleenex holders

lol!

 

[King of Kensington]

Trinidadians are very cool and stylish.

Maybe that's why Trinidadians aren't among the "winnable" groups according to Conservative strategists.

 

[King of Kensington]

It's not *just* Cuban ghettoes, though that is the largest group...there must be Little Nicaraguas, Petit Haitis, etc.

Yes, Miami + suburbs has less foreign-born than Toronto + suburbs, using 2000/2001 census data, at least...I remember crunching the numbers at least once on a forum thread years back. I didn't mean to imply that the suburbs are 100% apple pie Americans, but the % does drop more than in Toronto's suburbs (esp. Mississauga, Brampton, Richmond Hill, and Markham).

The US census bureau has also changed the definition for the Miami metro area. It used to be Miami/Dade (where a majority probably is foreign born) but now it stretches up to Palm Beach.

All in all though whether the % in Miami is slightly higher or slightly lower than Toronto isn't really the main question. Miami's immigrant population is still dominated by a few communities (Cubans, Haitians and a few others). In Toronto (and New York) no group dominates.

ETA: http://www.afsc.org/miami/documents/census.pdf

Miami-Dade is 51% foreign born in 2000, with 93% born in Latin America and the Caribbean. Spanish speakers outnumber English speakers by a 2-1 margin. Obviously the foreign born would drop significantly if Fort Lauderdale and Palm Beach were added.