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SmartTrack (Proposed)

While that is under construction, begin the planning for a GO RER tunnel under downtown.
From the Metrolinx 2031 plan (big PDF, small powerpoint), I really think the 4-track GO RER underground tunnel is targetted for ~2031 or beyond. We don't need it for Smarttrack yet as there's Union station capacity (after Union refurb done) to accomodate Smarttrack for a decade. A lot of Union tracks are already shut down right now during the refurbishment (platforms 14-21 are closed right now) so once those extra tracks and extra platforms open again, and with a new signalling system for quicker train dispatching -- it appears I would think there is actually plenty of room for a doubling of trains during peak, especially with the station GO concourse tripled in square footage after the Union revitalization quagmire is finished.

As a comparision at how much more Union can actually handle: New York Penn has something like three times the traffic in almost the same space and trackage as Union (Union pushes 70M people per year on 16 tracks and 11 platforms (limited to ~7-8 during renos), not including the new UP Express platform (with that, we have more platforms than New York Penn!!). While Penn pushes 230M people per year on 21 tracks and 11 platforms). Also, another additional capacity-expanding trick is double-berthing appears to be planned at Union at some of the platforms (this is quite useful for trains that terminate at Union from opposite directions) well before the tunnel becomes critical. Double-berthing isn't an option at Penn due to track length limitations. NY Penn is also bottlenecked as a terminus open only at one end (so trains have to reverse direction) while Union is a pass-through station with more capacity potential. Yet they push 230M/annum through that eye of a needle. And our Toronto Union conveniently has a few platforms long enough to permit double-berthing, given space available for central platforms to west of Union, so Metrolinx is apparently planning that. Google Map Satellite confirms room for double-berthing on about 4 or 5 tracks (Side observation: We'll probably also need a few Simcoe Street teamways. Imagine that!). Right now Union uses an old signalling system, which slows down the pace of train arrivals/departures. Union should easily be able to handle >200M per year, after the revitalization, if ALL platforms are reopened, plus better signalling, plus electrification, plus a few double-berths (3 or 4), so that should take care of GO RER needs quite easily till ~2030s.

Yes, it honestly feels like Union can't handle it, but we're replacing the tiny GO concourse with two massive GO concourses (triple the square footage total). They're shutting down Bay concourse in early 2015 when they open the supersized York GO concourse (Already much bigger than the current Bay concourse), then redoing the Bay concourse to be supersized too. Then of a sudden, we got 3 times the square footage of GOtrain concourse. Yes, we'll eventually need the extra underground trackage and platforms, but I don't think it figures even into a delayed Smarttrack plan timescale. Unless the plan gets accelerated.

With the Union refurbishment and some of these tweaks, Union can definitely handle about 2-3x peak train traffic without needing a tunnel.

From this, I feel I doubt the GO RER tunnel something that they'll do actual shovel-planning for until the thirties (2030s) unless they accelerate the whole multi-phase GO electricification (all the way to Kitchener, Barrie, Hamilton, Oshawa, etc) into just 10 years, then we badly need the tunnel. But this is doubtful, as the existing Union after refurbishment and tweaks, can swallow the Smarttrack traffic, even in conjunction with some electrified GO RER lines such as Lakeshore.
 
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Well here's what I hope fare integration looks like:
Old city of Toronto, york & east york become fare zone 1.
North york, Scarborough & Etobicoke become fare zone 2.
York region, durham & peel become fare zone 3.
The outer regions (Simcoe, Halton, etc) can become fare zone 4.

Lower the price for one zone travel to $2. Two zone travel is $3. Three zone travel is $4, four zone travel is $5. This would apply to all modes of transit.

By making two zone travel $3, Scarborough Etobicoke and north York won't get shafted (their normal commute downtown won't increase in price).

what about commuters take only 1 or 2 stops within North York or York region? distance based fare is the way to go..shanghai subway has implemented distance fare 10 years ago...what takes this limbo city/government so long to work it out...lol
 
From the Metrolinx 2031 plan (big PDF, small powerpoint), I really think the 4-track GO RER underground tunnel is targetted for ~2031 or beyond. We don't need it for Smarttrack yet as there's Union station capacity (after Union refurb done) to accomodate Smarttrack for a decade. A lot of Union tracks are already shut down right now during the refurbishment (platforms 14-21 are closed right now) so once those extra tracks and extra platforms open again, and with a new signalling system for quicker train dispatching -- it appears I would think there is actually plenty of room for a doubling of trains during peak, especially with the station GO concourse tripled in square footage after the Union revitalization quagmire is finished.

With the Union refurbishment and some of these tweaks, Union can definitely handle about 2-3x peak train traffic without needing a tunnel.

From this, I feel I doubt the GO RER tunnel something that they'll do actual shovel-planning for until the thirties (2030s) unless they accelerate the whole multi-phase GO electricification (all the way to Kitchener, Barrie, Hamilton, Oshawa, etc) into just 10 years, then we badly need the tunnel. But this is doubtful, as the existing Union after refurbishment and tweaks, can swallow the Smarttrack traffic, even in conjunction with some electrified GO RER lines such as Lakeshore.

Yup, all good points. This is why I suggested previously that the DRL and the GO RER tunnel be combined into a single project, to be started after the initial GO RER setup is completed. Realistically, the DRL is at least 7-10 years away from beginning construction, with completion sometime in the mid 2020s at the absolute earliest. The Metrolinx White Paper mentioned the impending capacity crunch at Union sometime around 2031. The GO RER DRL would be incredibly late in relieving one capacity crunch, but actually a bit early to relieve another one.
 
Ignoring some of the strange routing (especially on the west) and the even stranger funding that Tory has assumed will get this built, my biggest concern remains just how few stations are in the core's "shoulder areas." I think any approval of SmartTrack by Toronto council will need to quickly address this by adding upwards of five stations.
 
What do you think "complete fare integration" means?


Ideally any GO fare in the city will be the same fare as the TTC and totally interchangeable.

Realistically TTC fare paid should be 100% deductible from GO fares so if your GO fare is $5 and TTC $2.50 then your GO fare with unlimited TTC travel {within the time restrictions} will be $2.50. I think you will certainly find GO fares to be abolished on inner city routes ie from Exhibition to Main and from Bloor West to Union where just your TTC pass gets you on board.

This is particularily so now that the City and TTC are feeling the heat from the private Liberty Village bus. New GO stations at Corktown/Queen East and LibertyVillage/Queen West will probably get built sooner rather than later due to their explosive populations but having very slow transit travel times. King Street streetcar is already the busiest streetcar in the city and the new streetcars will do nothing to change that. I think the entire GO system roughly south of Bloor will be made a "free zone" with your TTC paid fare. The cost would be relatively small, the need is immediate, the area is the fastest growing in the city, and a DRL is at least 15 years away. It's a relatively simple solution to a immediate problem.
 
Ideally any GO fare in the city will be the same fare as the TTC and totally interchangeable.

Now I'm really confused by your statement that "GO RER is a great leap forward but will still be predominately a 905 service due to the much higher fares even after complete fare integration". If there is complete fare integration, by your own definition there won't be higher fares!
 
Ignoring some of the strange routing (especially on the west) and the even stranger funding that Tory has assumed will get this built, my biggest concern remains just how few stations are in the core's "shoulder areas." I think any approval of SmartTrack by Toronto council will need to quickly address this by adding upwards of five stations.
This, exactly. SmartTrack ignores wide swathes of the west end, which is the most populous part of the city, but for some reason, has a small fraction of the stations that the east end of the line has.
 
Ignoring some of the strange routing (especially on the west) and the even stranger funding that Tory has assumed will get this built, my biggest concern remains just how few stations are in the core's "shoulder areas." I think any approval of SmartTrack by Toronto council will need to quickly address this by adding upwards of five stations.

I wouldn't trust council to touch the transit file with a 10 foot pole. If anything they will probably approve a feasibility study to bury the SmartTrack within Scarborough, and rename a few stations with 20 syllables or more. As for downtown, they already have enough surface subways.
 
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I wouldn't trust council to touch the transit file with a 10 foot pole. If anything they will probably approve a feasibility study to bury the SmartTrack within Scarborough, and rename a few stations with 20 syllables or more. As for downtown, they already have enough surface subways.

Downtown has enough surface subways? Was that a joke? Downtown doesn't have any.
 
Downtown has enough surface subways? Was that a joke? Downtown doesn't have any.

Well, you could say that the Union rail corridor = surface subways, but of course it's a joke. It would have been funny except that this is the kind of claptrap that passes as transit planning these days.
 
Correctly comparing New York's Penn Station with Toronto Union Station...

From the Metrolinx 2031 plan (big PDF, small powerpoint), I really think the 4-track GO RER underground tunnel is targetted for ~2031 or beyond. We don't need it for Smarttrack yet as there's Union station capacity (after Union refurb done) to accomodate Smarttrack for a decade. A lot of Union tracks are already shut down right now during the refurbishment (platforms 14-21 are closed right now) so once those extra tracks and extra platforms open again, and with a new signalling system for quicker train dispatching -- it appears I would think there is actually plenty of room for a doubling of trains during peak, especially with the station GO concourse tripled in square footage after the Union revitalization quagmire is finished.

As a comparision at how much more Union can actually handle: New York Penn has something like three times the traffic in almost the same space and trackage as Union (Union pushes 70M people per year on 16 tracks and 11 platforms (limited to ~7-8 during renos), not including the new UP Express platform (with that, we have more platforms than New York Penn!!). While Penn pushes 230M people per year on 21 tracks and 11 platforms). Also, another additional capacity-expanding trick is double-berthing appears to be planned at Union at some of the platforms (this is quite useful for trains that terminate at Union from opposite directions) well before the tunnel becomes critical. Double-berthing isn't an option at Penn due to track length limitations. NY Penn is also bottlenecked as a terminus open only at one end (so trains have to reverse direction) while Union is a pass-through station with more capacity potential. Yet they push 230M/annum through that eye of a needle. And our Toronto Union conveniently has a few platforms long enough to permit double-berthing, given space available for central platforms to west of Union, so Metrolinx is apparently planning that. Google Map Satellite confirms room for double-berthing on about 4 or 5 tracks (Side observation: We'll probably also need a few Simcoe Street teamways. Imagine that!). Right now Union uses an old signalling system, which slows down the pace of train arrivals/departures. Union should easily be able to handle >200M per year, after the revitalization, if ALL platforms are reopened, plus better signalling, plus electrification, plus a few double-berths (3 or 4), so that should take care of GO RER needs quite easily till ~2030s.

Yes, it honestly feels like Union can't handle it, but we're replacing the tiny GO concourse with two massive GO concourses (triple the square footage total). They're shutting down Bay concourse in early 2015 when they open the supersized York GO concourse (Already much bigger than the current Bay concourse), then redoing the Bay concourse to be supersized too. Then of a sudden, we got 3 times the square footage of GOtrain concourse. Yes, we'll eventually need the extra underground trackage and platforms, but I don't think it figures even into a delayed Smarttrack plan timescale. Unless the plan gets accelerated.

With the Union refurbishment and some of these tweaks, Union can definitely handle about 2-3x peak train traffic without needing a tunnel.

From this, I feel I doubt the GO RER tunnel something that they'll do actual shovel-planning for until the thirties (2030s) unless they accelerate the whole multi-phase GO electricification (all the way to Kitchener, Barrie, Hamilton, Oshawa, etc) into just 10 years, then we badly need the tunnel. But this is doubtful, as the existing Union after refurbishment and tweaks, can swallow the Smarttrack traffic, even in conjunction with some electrified GO RER lines such as Lakeshore.

Mdrejohn: I had to reply noting your comment about New York's Penn Station being only open at one end - that is true
for only four tracks: 1-2-3-4 on the south end that primarily serve NJ Transit trains are stub ended...All the other tracks
have through capabilities and can access both the East River and Hudson River tunnels with the exception being LIRR
used tracks 20 and 21 having access to the East River tunnels only...Amtrak and NJT trains using Penn Station can go
through the East River tunnels to access Sunnyside Yard in Queens - their primary yard facility - and LIRR trains that
use tracks 13 to 21 can go to the West Side Yard - which has a capacity of 320 cars...

What makes both New York's Penn Station and Toronto Union Station flexible to serve trains is that they both allow
trains to run through to serve their yard facilities and in the case of GO and VIA in Toronto and Amtrak in NYP that
allows trains to run through and not have to terminate in each respectively...

LI MIKE
 
Thanks for the clarification about the four tracks! You're right, though still, that's still similar/fewer pass-through tracks than Toronto Union has, if we also count the platformless tracks to the south.
 
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Now I'm really confused by your statement that "GO RER is a great leap forward but will still be predominately a 905 service due to the much higher fares even after complete fare integration". If there is complete fare integration, by your own definition there won't be higher fares!

100% Fare Integration is what Vancouver has for it's commuter rail................once you pay a commuter rail fare it is good on the entire bus/Seabus/SkyTrain system. If you are coming from one of those system and connecting to WCE then you only pay the difference. In Vancouver no matter where you go you pay the higher single fare that includes unlimited transfers as opposed to GO/TTC where a GO ticket is not tranferable.

SmartTrack unlike GO RER will be a strictly TTC service with TTC fares which is what sets it apart from GO RER.

If Metrolinx decided to get rid of ALL GO fares as long as you don't cross a city boundary {ie Miss to Tor} and all you needed was your TTC pass then SmartTracks really wouldn't be needed.
 
Vancouvers commuter rail system is a bit of a niche service, a single line that runs trains a quarter the size of modern GO consists, and carrying 1/15th of GOs daily train ridership.

if you think SmartTrack will be run by the TTC you will be sorely mistaken. Tory is already talking about letting it just be some additional capacity and fare integration on GO RER, like the political strategists behind him have admitted that it was originally planned to be. The TTC will likely balk at mainline rail operations anyway even if Tory tries to put it on them.
 

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