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SmartTrack (Proposed)

Three years is super-duper aggressive, for sure. GO RER electrification doesn't begin construction till ~2018-2019. But as long as they begin actual construction and progress it reasonably well enough, they've probably won over a few ridings from Quebec.

It's my understanding that feds are still supposedly commited to one-third the cost of "SmartTrack" related transit enhancements including Crosstown West LRT (reassignment of SmartTrack funds) as well as enhancements to RER (probably infill stations/extra frequency/GO EMUs instead of GO electric locomotives/etc) along the Bramalea-Unionville section of the GO network.

Regardless, this is good for "SmartTrack" (as RER plan) too because this all adds to Transport Canada working harder to come up with new rail standards/operations for conversion of former mainlines (GO network and now Montreal) into a metro-like system (SmartTrack/RER and the Caisse proposal), also combined with the additional pressures of electrification elsewhere including possible EMUs for VIA HFR and future Ontario HSR.
 
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nfitz said:
I can't think of another example of the feds ever funding anything major in Montreal for transit before. Yet in Toronto they've provided funding for the Spadina subway extension, Scarborough subway extension, Sheppard East LRT, Union-Pearson, and the Union Station renovations.

And there's a large pool of new federal money that hasn't been assigned yet.
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The Laval extension was build (mostly) when the previous Liberals were in power - so no federal funding was provided. The Conservatives started infrastructure funding post recession, and the Laval bridge collapse meant that Quebec first used the money to improve highway infrastructure.
 
The time line of three year to complete that line raised my eyebrows as well. But i have more faith in Montreal pulling something like this off. Thats because the caisse de depot is backing it, the public and media are firmly behind it. And when it comes to city hall, they have party system wherby the elected mayor holds a majority and the mayors party controls the city hall agenda. This means: 1) fewer endless debates. 2) Fewer endless studies 3) The strong ideologues are few or have little influence because they tend to be in the opposition benches. This all amounts to decision making that is based moreso on pragmatism and greater public need.

Also. The public sees these kind of projects (eg.: the metro, 76 olympics, expo...etc) and other major infrastucture projects as a source of civic pride and way way to "one up" Toronto. Hence its rare to find any criticism or opposition from anyone when you annoucnce something like this. The risk for these for these projects in regards to Montreal are things like corruption and influencing peddleing between contractors and government. That last part is what makes me sceptical about the three year timeline. The dorval circle is the best example of the worst kind of infrastructure project execution.
 
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Imagine how incompetent the Toronto system would look if Montreal does get something going in 3 years.

From TTC, to Council, to Metrolinx, to the Provincial Liberals - they will all look totally inept at working over a dozen years (in 2019) with nothing to show for Transit City, while Montreal gets something completed in 3 years.
 
BurlOak said:
Imagine how incompetent the Toronto system would look if Montreal does get something going in 3 years.
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Even if it does get done in 3 years, the way Quebec does things there would be a mass corruption investigation that would follow suit and half of the politicians involved with the project would be implicated.
 
BurlOak said:
Ontario must be good at hiding their corruption. The Laval subway extension was half the cost (per km) than the Spadina extension - and that included the corruption premium.
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Is the "corruption premium" itemized on the expense sheet?

But seriously, one needs to be highly cautious when comparing tunnelling costs between cities. Toronto apparently has more challenging soil conditions, making tunnelling more expensive. It's easier and cheaper to tunnel through solid rock than soft clay, for example.
 
BurlOak said:
The Laval extension was build (mostly) when the previous Liberals were in power - so no federal funding was provided. The Conservatives started infrastructure funding post recession ...
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Nor was there any federal funding for the $670 million for Train de l'Est which opened in 2014. It seems a bit rich anyone in Toronto complaining about future transit funding from the feds for Quebec.

BurlOak said:
Imagine how incompetent the Toronto system would look if Montreal does get something going in 3 years.
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3 years? Much of this new route has been announced as getting Metro-like frequencies multiple times over the last 55 years. Recall that this was Line 3, and Line 4 opened almost 50 years ago.

This seems to be a case of the grass-is-always-greener - not that Montreal can do things faster.
 
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nfitz said:
Nor was there any federal funding for the $670 million for Train de l'Est which opened in 2014. It seems a bit rich anyone in Toronto complaining about future transit funding from the feds for Quebec.
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how much of the expansion of GO Transit, AMT's comparator, was federally funded?
 
dowlingm said:
how much of the expansion of GO Transit, AMT's comparator, was federally funded?
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There was federal funding to several projects, including the Georgetown line upgrade, the Lakeshore third track, the Union station upgrades, and if I'm not mistaken the Snider and Hagerman diamond work. Wasn't GO TRIP 1/3 federally funded? It's been a while now.
 
While i am not a geolo
nfitz said:
Nor was there any federal funding for the $670 million for Train de l'Est which opened in 2014. It seems a bit rich anyone in Toronto complaining about future transit funding from the feds for Quebec.

3 years? Much of this new route has been announced as getting Metro-like frequencies multiple times over the last 55 years. Recall that this was Line 3, and Line 4 opened almost 40 years ago.

This seems to be a case of the grass-is-always-greener - not that Montreal can do things faster.
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You re right about the the fact taht there was no fed funding. But you Might want to check your facts about the timelines. 40 years ago there was the green line that ran from Frontenac to Atwater. The orange line ran from Bonaventure to Henri Bourassa. Then there was yellow line that had only one stop at Man and his world. Thats it.

Since that time (40 years ago) they have stretched the green line west all the way to park angrignon and east all the way to Radisson and H Beaugrand. The orange was looped all the way to st laurent (Cote vertu) and extended into Laval on teh other side. They they added a new blue line that runs through the Cote des nieges, University of montreal behind the mountain all the way east. Yes, montreal is always thinking about extending their subway, unfortunately we are not. And when we come up with ideas, the solutions and debates are always about other hidden political and idoelogical agendas. Whereas in montreal is always about moving people efficiently and effectively.
 
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Burnt creek said:
... you Might want to check your facts about the timelines. 40 years ago there was the green line that ran from Frontenac to Atwater. The orange line ran from Bonaventure to Henri Bourassa. Then there was yellow line that had only one stop at Man and his world. Thats it.
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Oh, I'm very familiar with it, having gone to High School and Cegep in Montreal. I did mis-speak though ... Line 4 opened almost 50 years ago, not 40 years ago. Time flies.

I'm not sure the point of your metro history (a history I lived through). There hasn't been any Metro stations built on the island for almost 30 years. The long-delayed Line 5 extension to Anjou has been on the books for over 30 years, the long-delayed Orange Line extension to Salaberry has been waiting for over 40 years. The Longueuil extension has been waiting for near 20 years (or is it longer). And what about the Line 5 extension to Lafleur?

Burnt creek said:
Yes, montreal is always thinking about extending their subway, unfortunately we are not.
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You are joking? Since the last Metro extension on the Island, we've had 2 completed subway extensions in Toronto, and the extension to York University will be finished next year. The Eglinton line is under construction. The Finch West and Scarborough extensions are fully funded, and there's some serious discussion about a Yonge extension and a downtown relief line.

Yes, Montreal is always thinking about extending the Metro. But other than the politically driven 3 stations in Laval (north of Montreal), there's been nothing but hot air and empty announcements since they committed to the 1-station extension to Cote Vertu over 30 years ago!

Little has actually happened since Drapeau left office.
 
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Yes - and in 1986-88 it said Line 4 on the map.
Burnt creek said:
http://www.stm.info/en/about/discover_the_stm_its_history/history/metro-history

The blue line (which i presume is is what you mean by line 4) came into service in 1986-88.
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No, Line 4 is the Yellow Line. You can see the line number on the original 1966 map that was on the Metro trains:
Plan-1966.1.jpg


You'll note that Line 3 is missing. It was always planned to be a metro-like frequency steel-wheel rail line from Central Station through the Mont-Royal Tunnel to Deux-Montagnes and possibly other destinations.
 
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