SmartTrack (Proposed)

[ehlow]

The interiors would need to be completely modified for an RER type of use. Right now the insides look more like a VIA train than a GO train or a TTC subway train. Using those trains would also require a migration over to high platforms.

Do you mean, less seating and more standing room?

 

[gweed123]

Do you mean, less seating and more standing room?

Less seating, more standing room, more efficient flow to and from the doors. Via trains especially have a big constricting area at the doors. From the photos I've seen of the UPX vehicles, it's pretty similar there too, unless it was just the angle.

 

[ehlow]

Less seating, more standing room, more efficient flow to and from the doors. Via trains especially have a big constricting area at the doors. From the photos I've seen of the UPX vehicles, it's pretty similar there too, unless it was just the angle.

It should be easy to modify the internal layout since it's high platform right?

I kind of wish they would buy more of the UPX DMUs, run maybe 5-6 car trains instead of the current 2-3 car trains that UPX has, paint them green, and run them frequently where there's track. Say every 15 min on the Lakeshores. They should be faster & better than the current GO trains right? Less capacity per train can be made up by more frequent service. That way we wouldn't have to wait all these years for electrification. Once electrification happens in 7 years, great, but until then, it'd be nice.

 

[TOareaFan]

It should be easy to modify the internal layout since it's high platform right?

I kind of wish they would buy more of the UPX DMUs, run maybe 5-6 car trains instead of the current 2-3 car trains that UPX has, paint them green, and run them frequently where there's track. Say every 15 min on the Lakeshores. They should be faster & better than the current GO trains right? Less capacity per train can be made up by more frequent service. That way we wouldn't have to wait all these years for electrification. Once electrification happens in 7 years, great, but until then, it'd be nice.

Can these cars even be used, if they were purchased/available, on lakeshore?

 

[ehlow]

Can these cars even be used, if they were purchased/available, on lakeshore?

Why not? I'm no expert but it says it's FRA Tier 1 compliant on the wikipedia page for UPX. It's diesel powered like the current trains. The main difference seems to be it's multiple unit which as far as I know means it can accelerate faster.

 

[TOareaFan]

Why not? I'm no expert but it says it's FRA Tier 1 compliant on the wikipedia page for UPX. It's diesel powered like the current trains. The main difference seems to be it's multiple unit which as far as I know means it can accelerate faster.

Isn't there a reason they had to build different platforms at Weston and Bloor for them? Operating on Lakeshore would we not have to do the same at all the stations on those lines?

 

[gweed123]

I think that's right. (Although I think it's a pretty lame name, and it's not likely to survive past the planning documents.)

City input into infill stations and vehicle choice is huge, and worth paying city money for.

Another big "get" would be sharing the UPE dedicated track with west-side SmartTrack trains. User mdrejohn has been suggesting this but I don't know how likely this is. If it happens it is huge.

Agreed. I think if the agreement basically said that SmartTrack could be rolled into GO RER as a separate sub-service, and that the City of Toronto should pay for all infill stations required by SmartTrack, that it would be a huge win for Toronto.

(Moved from Spadina Extension thread)

I think that's the strategy. Metrolinx will continue doing GO RER while calling it "SmartTrack" as much as possible, so that Tory can claim he's building what he promised. We've already seen this in action.

I don't think that's fully what Tory promised by showing SmartTrack on the TTC map however. To me showing it on the TTC map with the other TTC subways implies the TTC would run it and it would cost TTC fares. I'm skeptical that will happen though, but they'll still call it SmartTrack so Tory can say he's building it next election.

Yup, I think SmartTrack will be used as the technical name for the project under the service is almost ready, at which point it will simply become a service under the GO RER umbrella, with the only distinction being a different route number and colour.

 

[gweed123]

It should be easy to modify the internal layout since it's high platform right?

I kind of wish they would buy more of the UPX DMUs, run maybe 5-6 car trains instead of the current 2-3 car trains that UPX has, paint them green, and run them frequently where there's track. Say every 15 min on the Lakeshores. They should be faster & better than the current GO trains right? Less capacity per train can be made up by more frequent service. That way we wouldn't have to wait all these years for electrification. Once electrification happens in 7 years, great, but until then, it'd be nice.

Are you suggesting that we buy the GO RER vehicles now, and run them as diesel until electrification is up and running? That's an interesting solution, for sure.

 

[ehlow]

Are you suggesting that we buy the GO RER vehicles now, and run them as diesel until electrification is up and running? That's an interesting solution, for sure.

I wouldn't say "suggesting", more floating the idea. What if, by using DMUs you could do something like GO RER but instead of 8-10 years later, it could be running on Lakeshore in 1-2 years, and on Georgetown a year after that? (since those corridors have the tracks)

Electrification seems like a really long process. Lots of EAs, installing all the electrical infrastructure, I think Metrolinx said it would take 7 years. In the meantime, we already have 15 min all day two way service running DMUs on the UPX.

 

[gweed123]

I wouldn't say "suggesting", more floating the idea. What if, by using DMUs you could do something like GO RER but instead of 8-10 years later, it could be running on Lakeshore in 1-2 years, and on Georgetown a year after that? (since those corridors have the tracks)

Electrification seems like a really long process. Lots of EAs, installing all the electrical infrastructure, I think Metrolinx said it would take 7 years. In the meantime, we already have 15 min all day two way service running DMUs on the UPX.

Does anyone know if the EMUs that were shown above (or a page or two ago) can run on diesel as well? If so, then yes that may be a great solution: GO RER with everything but the wires. I still think the UPX vehicles wouldn't be suitable for an RER service, but I'm sure there are dual mode MUs out there that would be (from an internal layout perspective).

 

[cplchanb]

Does anyone know if the EMUs that were shown above (or a page or two ago) can run on diesel as well? If so, then yes that may be a great solution: GO RER with everything but the wires. I still think the UPX vehicles wouldn't be suitable for an RER service, but I'm sure there are dual mode MUs out there that would be (from an internal layout perspective).

From their corporate website, the FLIRT has diesel and hybrid versions as well. the double decker is only electric though

 

[gweed123]

From their corporate website, the FLIRT has diesel and hybrid versions as well. the double decker is only electric though

Yup, it appears the Wikipedia entry says it runs in both electric and diesel as well. That could be a great option then, since it could be partially up and running before the next election, at least on Lakeshore and Kitchener (to Bramalea at least). It would be a great intermediate point, and would showcase the benefits of RER while the actual electrification infrastructure is being installed.

 

[44 North]

Agreed with ehlow and gweed...I like what's being discussed here, and I think it'd be great to slowly segue into RER using shorter DMUs at higher frequencies. The UPX vehicles would be great, but basically anything but bilevels. When I see bilevels, I don't see a 'surface subway'.

 

[gweed123]

Agreed with ehlow and gweed...I like what's being discussed here, and I think it'd be great to slowly segue into RER using shorter DMUs at higher frequencies. The UPX vehicles would be great, but basically anything but bilevels. When I see bilevels, I don't see a 'surface subway'.

I think the 6-car Stadler FLIRTs would be a good choice. They literally look like a hybrid between a GO train and a subway car, which is exactly the image that GO RER needs to convey: frequency and accessibility of a subway, comfort and speed of a GO train. Your point about a surface subway is well founded, 44 North.

The only sticking point is whether these vehicles can be converted from DMU to EMU, or if once they're purchased that's what you get.

 

[ehlow]

I think the 6-car Stadler FLIRTs would be a good choice. They literally look like a hybrid between a GO train and a subway car, which is exactly the image that GO RER needs to convey: frequency and accessibility of a subway, comfort and speed of a GO train. Your point about a surface subway is well founded, 44 North.

The only sticking point is whether these vehicles can be converted from DMU to EMU, or if once they're purchased that's what you get.

The UPX vehicles are supposed to be able to convert to EMU, I'm pretty sure I've read that.