rbt
Senior Member
An unmentioned item is: Risk of Lawsuit from Metrolinx
Metrolinx construction price inflation seems to be outpacing MTO.
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SmartTrack (Proposed)
- Thread starter aquateam
- Start date
An unmentioned item is: Risk of Lawsuit from Metrolinx
Metrolinx construction price inflation seems to be outpacing MTO.
urbancog
Active Member
Do you have a source for the changes in platforms at King-Liberty and St. Clair Old Weston? Metrolinx's web page (https://www.metrolinx.com/en/projec...on/what-were-building/king-liberty-go-station) still show platforms serving 4 tracks at King-Liberty but no details for St Clair. I can see how that may not be necessary if Express services & Stopping services are split onto the two pairs of tracks but haven't seen an announcement.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
It's in the supp. report 2:
AoD
blacksquirrels
Active Member
yeah, an attempt to save face on the Smarttrack campaign promise. they missed the part where fare integration might have justified the cost.
would have much preferred a Sydney Metro, Montreal REM, Elizabeth Line type project if Toronto is paying for all these stations though.
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ssiguy2
Senior Member
I don't know if it will slow down GO electrification plans and these rising costs may actually expediate the process. Electrification sooner , as opposed to building mega garages that people can use for free, would make the operational savings costs come much faster as a big chunk of GO's budget is for diesel to run the trains.
As for these soaring costs for ST, why should Ontario taxpayers pay for it? Toronto is already getting the massive GO expansion for free and these stations were at Toronto's request assuming that QP would also pay for them. KW, Ottawa, and London are expanding their RT networks but unlike Toronto, actually have to pay for a chunk of it. Perhaps if Toronto had some skin in the game, we would see some rationalizing of these costs.
Toronto citizens and City Hall seem to be under this illusion that they should get everything free. The ONLY reason why Toronto says it can't afford it is because they don't tax themselves appropriately unlike every other Ontario city. The reason the TTC is having to cut services is because they have the lowest property tax rates in the whole damn province and this gap will continue to rise as again Toronto taxes aren't going up as fast as every other city is because they expect QP to always come to their rescue. Toronto needs to grow up and act like an adult.
As for these soaring costs for ST, why should Ontario taxpayers pay for it? Toronto is already getting the massive GO expansion for free and these stations were at Toronto's request assuming that QP would also pay for them. KW, Ottawa, and London are expanding their RT networks but unlike Toronto, actually have to pay for a chunk of it. Perhaps if Toronto had some skin in the game, we would see some rationalizing of these costs.
Toronto citizens and City Hall seem to be under this illusion that they should get everything free. The ONLY reason why Toronto says it can't afford it is because they don't tax themselves appropriately unlike every other Ontario city. The reason the TTC is having to cut services is because they have the lowest property tax rates in the whole damn province and this gap will continue to rise as again Toronto taxes aren't going up as fast as every other city is because they expect QP to always come to their rescue. Toronto needs to grow up and act like an adult.
vic
Senior Member
I remember being surprised to see the level pedestrian crossing within the Sunnyvale Caltrain station. Imagine how much that would save in building stations without all of the tunnels, stairs, and elevators
You can see it on Google:
Google Maps
Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.
www.google.ca
Bordercollie
Senior Member
Take into consideration that the weather in Toronto is much different than sunny California pictured there.
But do we need a roof for the whole platform? Probably not. But having a roof at only one area will mean people will congregate in those areas and not spread out.
crs1026
Senior Member
I agree about weather and distribution of people - but there are options that take a lot less steelwork, cladding, glazing, etc than ML likes to use. Note the traditional A-frame shelters at top right.
I would put snowmelting platforms on the "must have" side of the ledger. Windbreaks need not be quite as elaborate. I'm not knowledgeable as to how elevated walkways with elevators compare in cost to tunnels, but I would want something safer than a crossing at grade.
- Paul
Bordercollie
Senior Member
I think Eglinton or Scarborough station has at grade crossings. The problem with crossing 3 tracks is that someone is definitely going to get killed.
APTA-2048
Senior Member
There are no stations in Scarborough with grade crossings for passengers. Every station has tunnels.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
You have to walk into an active rail yard to board trains at Lincolnville, at least for a few more months.
robmausser
Senior Member
I mean you could ask the same question about the Hamilton LRT, where the province is stepping in to pay for the cost overruns.
Or the many other times the Feds have stepped in to fund transit expansions. Why should a tax payer in Newfoundland help fund the Canada Line in Vancouver?
Whether you agree with it or not that kind of thing happens all the time, and its because cities simply don't have the funds to build such projects. Being the economic centers of our country the thinking is that you benefit all of Canada by increasing efficiency and economic prosperity of a city with these projects.
That's for another discussion but to get to your point the reason the province should step in is because thats how almost all transit projects in this country are built, this is no different.
Transit City was a project conceived by Toronto Mayer David Miller, entirely conceived by the city of Toronto and 100% funded and built by the Province. But now that i'm mentioning much beloved Liberal politicians by the transit community, you will be less likely to complain about that...
Bordercollie
Senior Member
That's 15.9% over budget. Considering that inflation is 6% now that's only double the rate of inflation. That's pretty good all things considering supply chain, labour shortages, on and on.
ssiguy2
Senior Member
That is not the point.
The point is that Toronto expects QP {ie everyone else in the province} to pick up the tab. Toronto seems to think that it is perfectly acceptable to have the lowest taxes in the province and yet still expect the best infrastructure free of cost. This notion that Toronto is "special" and therefore should have everything paid for is aging like milk and why people outside the GTA feel like Toronto is the spoiled kid of the province who, if he doesn't get everything he wants, takes his marbles home and cries to Mommy.
Every other person on this planet has already learnt that if you want new things you have to be prepared to pay for them but for some unknown reason, this is a concept Torontonians simply can't get their head around. This is not an issue of unaffordability but one of complete abdication of responsibility and poor priorities. Somehow it can't afford this overrun but can simultaneously afford to rebuild the Gardiner despite it's escalating cost. That shows where Toronto's priorities really are.
Until Toronto accepts this reality and begins to tax itself at an appropriate level then it will never become the truly world class city that it could be.
Bordercollie
Senior Member
Well the city is not allowed to run a deficit. So they would need to scale it back or find some other way to pay for it.
The alternative is asking the province to pay considering they collect gas tax which is supposed to pay for roads and transit.
If Toronto had a gas tax then they could allocate those monies to these projects.